Nov 01 2012

Temporal Binding

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12 responses so far

12 Responses to “Temporal Binding”

  1. ccbowerson 01 Nov 2012 at 11:18 am

    ‘When it does it is mostly framed as, “isn’t that an interesting quirk of the human mind,” but the deeper lesson, that we cannot trust our own perception and memory, is rarely brought home.’

    The lack of awareness of the general public on this topic is so poor that being aware of these issues, even as mere quirks would be progress. Armed with that basic knowledge, it seems at least possible to demonstrate how our perceptions and memories are biased. It is a difficult topic to discuss with people since often the very basics need to be introduced, which often prevents the conversation from progressing.

    Its not just that our perceptions and memories can’t be trusted, but that they are biased in systematic and often predictable ways. Knowing how they are biased helps us make better decisions and judgements in utilizing what we remember. Over time our memories become more like stories or lessons we tell ourselves about our past experiences.

    Only slightly related to this, but it made me laugh: I was just listening Jon Ronson who was a guest on Point of Inquiry, and during a discussion about confirmation bias he said “the more I think about confirmation bias, the more I see it everywhere.”

  2. tmac57on 01 Nov 2012 at 12:48 pm

    After just going through a mini health crisis,and having to try to reconstruct a series of symptoms and their temporal order for my doctor,I can appreciate the confounding nature of this problem.Even though these events happened within the last couple of weeks or so,it was tricky to place them confidently in order,but maybe I would have been more (unwarrantedly) confident if I wasn’t already aware of my own susceptibility to post hoc reasoning.That awareness made me much more cautious when relating my symptoms to my doctor.
    I think that it would be a really good idea to keep a ‘health’ journal to document out of the ordinary health events,especially as you get older,and are more apt to experience problems.You tend to think that you can rely on your memory,but my experience is that you may not be able to,and that might be valuable information that gets lost or distorted.

  3. Bronze Dogon 01 Nov 2012 at 1:28 pm

    We really need to find a way to get basic ideas like this more widely accepted. Everyone’s experienced some failure or another of their memory, but many don’t take it to heart. I’ve had a lot of arguments where I keep trying to hammer in the idea that faulty memories are why we don’t trust anecdotes, but to no avail.

  4. ccbowerson 01 Nov 2012 at 1:54 pm

    “I’ve had a lot of arguments where I keep trying to hammer in the idea that faulty memories are why we don’t trust anecdotes, but to no avail.”

    This is related to what I was trying to say above. The problem is that introducing such concepts during a real senario often makes a person defensive, as if you are doubting them personally, since people’s intuitions about how the mind works are generally wrong. People often view their own memories are little movies about what happened, and that they fade or get fuzzy like a poor recording of the event, instead of more correctly viewing their memories as reconstructions based upon a narrative they have created about the event

  5. elmer mccurdyon 01 Nov 2012 at 2:02 pm

    One logical conclusion of all this is that anything I might say about whether a particular treatment did or did not help is completely meaningless, which makes me wonder what a certain individual would hope to prove if he succeeded in harassing me into admitting that nothing I’ve tried has been of any help whatsoever, as he has been rather obsessively trying to do for the last several years on the various blogs where I’ve posted using this name or others; although he never deigns to speak to me, he does like to drop clues, and I’m fairly certain that Davdoodles is the individual in question and that he is the author of the email discussed in the previous post, and strongly suspect that tmac57 and ferrousbueller are the same individual; presumably there is some sort of objective method by which Dr. Novella could check this? I would say that the only relevance that this might have to medical issues would be in the area of mental health; i.e. either he or I is/am a complete lunatic. I lean more toward the former conclusion, although I suppose they’re not mutually exclusive.

  6. elmer mccurdyon 01 Nov 2012 at 2:34 pm

    In any case, even Dr. Novella (unless I my memory is deceiving me) has admitted that some memories are more trustworthy than others; he gives the example of a doctor’s knowledge of medicine, which is repeatedly reinforced. The reason that he would give special credence to this sort of knowledge seems fairly obvious, but I imagine he’s correct. Therefore I should think it would be useful to try to detail the various ways for ascertaining how likely memories or subjective perceptions are to be correct, rather that just reiterating evidence that they are not 100% trustworthy.

    It would also be useful to determine whether there are reasonable reasons that good quality objective evidence is lacking in those cases where it is.

  7. tmac57on 01 Nov 2012 at 5:11 pm

    elmer mccurdy- I assure you that I am not ferrousbueller (except on my days off…I don’t comment on those days).

  8. nybgruson 01 Nov 2012 at 5:57 pm

    This knowledge of how the brain works helps my life immensely in two very, very, very important ways.

    1) When I teach lower classpeople (PC term here;-) the USMLE I tell them to weave the the facts of the system/physiology/etc into a story. I make the analogy of an opera. Learn what the opera is about – the general story arc and major themes and sub plots. Then start learning the names of the characters. Then start learning some of the minor themes and sub plots. And finally you can learn the dialogue. I find this method helps immensely when trying to learn vast amounts of knowledge in order to apply them to either board exams or patients. If you can’t remember the character’s name, or how the character relates to other parts of the story, you can at least remember that there should be a character and an interaction and you can then look it up on your smartphone (for patients… they don’t allow those in board exams).

    2) When I get into an intense argument with my fiance, I am much more at ease and comfortable admitting that my memory may have been faulty, that the narrative I had may not have been entirely accurate, and that even if it were it may not reflect hers. It leads to mutually beneficial resolution without lingering resentment that I had to “admit I was wrong” or keep tally of who won more arguments. I accept that my brain is faulty and that outcomes are more important than determining if it was my brain, hers, or both that stuffed up. She is not quite as well versed on these topics as I am, but understands and accepts the fundamentals so she is also quite willing to apologize and admit her own irrationality when the need comes.

    There are more benefits to skepticism and an understanding of the shortcoming of the human brain than just debunking CAM and religion.

  9. elmer mccurdyon 01 Nov 2012 at 9:50 pm

    I should not have done that, but it’s done.

    Head games make me mad.

  10. elmer mccurdyon 01 Nov 2012 at 10:05 pm

    I apologize, for what it’s worth.

  11. BillyJoe7on 02 Nov 2012 at 7:45 am

    Ferrous beuller’s day off! :)
    But no, it was me, elmer, or have you forgotten? :)

  12. stereoblueon 03 Nov 2012 at 11:46 am

    I’ve definitely experienced this in a variety of situations where I would start blaming some event or person for something (just in my mind) and then after carefully evaluating it realizing that the starting point was earlier and thus my blame was misplaced. The funny thing is that even after realizing that that cause was earlier, my brain would still try and construct the evidence toward the first conclusion rather than the corrected second conclusion, and I have to continually remind myself of the actual order of things.

    All that is a bit vague. A recent (minor) example was getting sick on vacation. I was blaming the crappy hotel bed, the smoke-filled clubs, the airplane ride etc. Only after thinking about it for awhile did I realize that I had been waking up with a scratchy throat for days prior to actually having uncomfortable symptoms and before the flight/bed/club. I had somehow forgotten that I was likely fighting off the illness for days. Now, I’m sure smoky clubs don’t help my immune system at all, but you get the point.

    And, like I said, even after realizing that my illness most likely started days before, I would still find myself gravitating toward the flight/bed/club hypothesis and would have to remind myself that no, the illness began days earlier.

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