Apr 03 2012

Donald Trump – Anti-Vaccine Crank

You are currently browsing comments. If you would like to return to the full story, you can read the full entry here: “Donald Trump – Anti-Vaccine Crank”.

Share

22 responses so far

22 Responses to “Donald Trump – Anti-Vaccine Crank”

  1. Artur Krolon 03 Apr 2012 at 11:10 am

    The thing with Trump is that he has a surprisingly strong influence, given that he is, in fact, simply a (extremely high-stakes) gambler, one who tends to gamble with other people’s money and leave them with the losses, if he happens to have bad luck. He had, however, built a very convincing (to the lay-people) facade of “proper” business for his gambling. As such, it is both easy to see how he could fall into such propaganda (he’d already fallen to, among others, MLM propaganda with Kiyosaki), but also how he could consider himself in a position to give suggestions to experts on issues he doesn’t quite understand.

  2. CrookedTimberon 03 Apr 2012 at 11:45 am

    Good grief what an idiot. As of a few years ago Donald Chump was just the weird looking rich guy with casinos and a penchant for horribly gaudy decorations. Now he has been exposed as a birther, an anti-vaccine nutter and who knows what other wacky delusions he harbors.

    So – word around the campfire is that the next DSM manual might tighten the definition for an autism diagnosis after the last couple iterations have broadened the definition. If that happens and the number of diagnoses drops, do you think the anti-vaccination crowd will view it as a real drop? And why couldn’t they see that the exact same thing happened in reverse (at least part of the increase).

  3. DS1000on 03 Apr 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Just as a side note, does anyone know why the rise of autism is so big in the news lately? It’s been on the top of CNN and other news pages for at least a couple of weeks. So far they aren’t doing a terrible job, but still the closest they can bring themselves to the actual truth is saying something along the lines of “the rise is probably partially due to expanded diagnosis”.

  4. SARAon 03 Apr 2012 at 1:14 pm

    I think Donald Trump likes controversy. He’s not an idiot, he’s a manipulative publicity monster. I doubt he cares about the subject, or whether it’s true. He wants people to talk and write about him. So he chooses topics that get people fired up.

    I sometimes wonder if he deliberately chooses topics where it’s so obvious that he is wrong, as a way to mock his followers.

    I don’t think he’s naive. I don’t think he’s stupid. And I don’t think he’s ill informed. I think he’s egotistical publicity monger who is really good at what he does.

  5. Kory Zimneyon 03 Apr 2012 at 4:04 pm

    “I’ve gotten to be pretty familiar with the subject. You know, I have a theory — and it’s a theory that some people believe in — and that’s that celebrities publicly discuss their opinions on scientific topics. We never had anything like this. This is now an epidemic. It’s way, way up over the past 10 years. It’s way up over the past two years.” That’s why I think we have had an increase in autism…sorry just a little sarcasm, or maybe it’s actually the cause? ;)

  6. lizditzon 03 Apr 2012 at 4:14 pm

    does anyone know why the rise of autism is so big in the news lately?

    Because CDC announced they were going to release new autism figures last week, and did.

    Reliable coverage:

    David Gorski MD at Science Based Medicine
    Autism prevalence: Now estimated to be one in 88, and the antivaccine movement goes wild

    Orac Knows at Respectful Insolence (do read the comments from knowlegeable folk)
    The antivaccine movement resurrects the zombie that is the “autism epidemic”

    Matt Carey at Autism Science Foundation
    A summary of the CDC autism prevalence report

    Sullivan at LeftBrain/RightBrain

    Autism News Beat
    Autism Speaks and the epidemic of self interest (on the CDC report as interpreted by Autism Speaks)

  7. lizditzon 03 Apr 2012 at 4:15 pm

    DS1000, I have a comment in moderation with facts and links to responses to last Thursday’s announcement of new estimated autism rates.

  8. lizditzon 03 Apr 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Also, yesterday (April 2) was National Autism Awareness Day (in some circles) or better, the start of Autism Acceptance Month (advocated by most autistics)

  9. Oracon 03 Apr 2012 at 5:14 pm

    I don’t necessarily blame Trump for being so hopelessly wrong in his “theories.”

    I do.

    Trump is a beautiful example of crank magnetism. Remember his shameless pandering to the birther movement when he was running for the Republican nomination? At the time I thought that he was probably just shamelessly pandering to the most ridiculous (as in deserving of ridicule) elements of the Tea Party, but seeing his latest antics makes me think that he really believes birtherism, just as he appears to really believe in vaccine-autism conspiracy-mongering. What’s next for The Donald? 9/11 Truth? Moan hoax conspiracies? The possibilities are endless.

  10. Oracon 03 Apr 2012 at 5:16 pm

    I think Donald Trump likes controversy. He’s not an idiot, he’s a manipulative publicity monster. I doubt he cares about the subject, or whether it’s true.

    Actually, in this case I think Trump probably does care about the subject. He’s just completely wrong. He is, after all, buddies with Bob and Katie Wright, founders of Autism Speaks the group Allison Singer left because it wouldn’t abandon funding studies into the vaccine-autism link after all the overwhelming evidence that vaccines don’t cause autism. He’s done fundraisers for them and apparently knows them pretty well.

  11. Woodyon 03 Apr 2012 at 9:02 pm

    “Most if not all of the increase is due to the broadening of the definition of autism, diagnostic substitution, increased surveillance and awareness, and an increased willingness to accept the diagnosis.”

    I think that is an overstatement. Some of latest research on this by Peter Bearman at Columbia University estimates that such factors probably account for just over 50% of the observed increased prevalence. That leaves a lot unexplained. This was reviewed in the November 2011 Nature special issue on autism, which is public access for those interested.

    That said, the vaccine hypothesis is a dead horse. Moving on to more relevant hypotheses isn’t helped by ridiculous statements by Trump.

  12. sonicon 04 Apr 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Excellent summery of the issues.
    I wonder if someone would really think something is true about autism because ‘trump said so.’
    I wonder if someone could say that to me without me laughing out loud.
    Somethings are better left to the imagination… :-)

    Woody-
    Agreed- the prevalence might be increasing– for the sake of argument-even assuming increase in prevalence is true– vaccines not the cause…

  13. BobbyGon 04 Apr 2012 at 5:41 pm

    He has a “theory”? LOL.

    Gotta love the guy.

    http://www.bgladd.com/DonaldDiplomat.jpg

  14. Dirk Steeleon 04 Apr 2012 at 10:08 pm

    Steven, I have noticed how rarely you get involved with the comments or debates that arise from your blogs. Obviously you are a busy man. But probably it is because you only write in order to feed your insatiable ego? Or are there other factors involved?

  15. cwfongon 04 Apr 2012 at 10:23 pm

    Well, he thinks I’m unarguably wrong and you’re unarguably a nutcase.

  16. Dirk Steeleon 05 Apr 2012 at 5:47 am

    @cwfong

    ‘Well, he thinks I’m unarguably wrong and you’re unarguably a nutcase.’

    Well that is not what my psychiatrist says.

  17. Watcheron 05 Apr 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Your psychiatrist says CW isn’t wrong?

  18. rootsmusicon 06 Apr 2012 at 8:42 am

    Speaking from my vast experience as a personal anecdote, and based on all of the literature of the science (of which I tried to read some), psuedoscience (of which I read some and heard lots) and anything I ever heard around a church about raising babies (I’ve raised a few), and child development, it is my esteemed opinion that a sweet little 12 pound baby should be expected to change quite a bit over the next two months. And the two months after that and the two months after that. My 16 year had a vaccination a couple of years ago and now she’s driving. She didn’t used to do that.

    “when you add all of these vaccinations together and then two months later the baby is so different then lots of different things have happened.”

    Add up vaccinations
    See baby develop
    Conclude lots of different things have happened

    Duuhhh

    Is that a triple non sequitor?

    “I really — I’ve known cases.”

    Declare oneself an authority and argue from it.

  19. thunderbirdon 06 Apr 2012 at 10:01 am

    >>‘Well, he thinks I’m unarguably wrong and you’re unarguably a nutcase.’

    > Well that is not what my psychiatrist says.

    I imagine your psychiatrist says “my boat payment is due so, I better not lose another patient.” To himself, of course.

    I’m trying to decide whether your original comment was not-too-subtle sarcasm or a joke. It doesn’t matter, because Poe’s Law ensures the latter will be mistaken for the former, so I’ll comment on that basis. I think he doesn’t get involved because he’s said what he wants to and is willing to let commenters comment. Also I imagine he doesn’t want to bully people from his position of editorial power.

    Plus, he probably thinks you’re trolling.

  20. Dirk Steeleon 06 Apr 2012 at 4:03 pm

    ‘I’m trying to decide whether your original comment was not-too-subtle sarcasm or a joke.’

    It was said with tongue firmly in cheek. Also posted on the wrong thread (so it may have made a lot less sense). My stupidity is currently unbounded!

  21. Dirk Steeleon 06 Apr 2012 at 8:54 pm

    But I think my point is relevant. Why use a blog when one does not want to engage in the subsequent debate? Why not head straight to a Fox news interview? One can rely on ‘devoted followers’ of course to uphostler one’s beliefs, but Steven writes a blog. Why? Oh wow! Trump disses vaccines. Shock horror! Creationism may be taught in schools! How terrible! We do not have these issues in Europe at all!! It is all so easy for him. So if Steven wants to just express his opinion and ignores anyone who disagrees.. we can all do that. No problem. I have my own blog. It is egotistical in the extreme. I ignore all refutations of my opinion. My self belief remains intact. Bla bla bla……

  22. BillyJoe7on 07 Apr 2012 at 6:09 pm

    Dirk,

    Some things are just too obvious.
    Donald Trump talking as an authority on vaccines – via the university of google! – is a joke. Period.
    Get over it.

Trackback URI | Comments RSS

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.