I remember being in 4th or 5th grade and we had elections for the whole grade for who is going to be president and vice president of the student government. And the 2 kids (a boy and a girl) that I knew were going to win were the ones everyone had heard of, they were “popular”. And I liked them too, they were really nice, sweet, SMART people. REALLY smart. Not nerds, per say, more like PERFECT well-rounded overachievers. They both were always getting the best grades in every class and were good at every subject but were also on sports teams and stuff like that. They stayed with me through high school (which helps me remember them now I’m sure) – the boy was in my preschool class even, lol. I remember he and I were the only people in my Kindergarten class who would always volunteer to read out loud to the rest of the class. We were smart. The girl was so smart that she’d always be taking math a grade ahead of the rest of us. These smart kids were popular.

I’m not sure who the “nerds” were at the school. Travis, who I had a crush on, probably would be considered one – our 7th grade Ancient History Social Studies teacher made fun of him for bringing his own atlas to class one time. He was named Valedictorian at the end of high school and was a fan of WoW and was in chorus through the end of high school which is pretty uncool for a guy and stuff like that. He got a perfect score (800) on his World History SAT Subject Test. He was the guy who brought extra batteries for his calculator when going to the SATs. Only nerds do that, right? But he was kinda popular within a subgroup of people from the honors/AP classes. Especially amongst those girls (like me). He had only 1 real close guy friend, Geoffrey… who was probably more of a nerd than Travis. Geoffrey was smart… especially at math. He had that classic horrible nerd handwriting. Geoffrey was a lot more socially awkward than Travis… I don’t think Geoffrey had any friends other than Travis. But the label “nerd” never really crossed my mind for either of these guys. For anyone at the school really.

What is a nerd? Someone who is socially awkward? Someone who is both smart AND socially awkward? Just anyone who is smart? Does the smartness have to be math/science related?

My brother is 2 years younger than me (I’m 20 and a sophomore at Boston University). So he’s deciding what college to go to right now. And he wants to be a math major. Does that AUTOMATICALLY make him a nerd? What about when you find out he spends almost all of his time at play and musical rehearsals, or in band and chorus, or even just busking for some extra cash with his violin virtuoso best friend who sometimes composes music professionally even though he’s only 17? My brother sings, dances, acts, plays guitar & flute. My brother has a bunch of friends, he’s not that socially awkward. He only went to high school with me for one year (long story) but even though I was the 11th grader and he was the 9th grader, people would see me/hear my name and say “Hey, are you Peter’s sister?” – yes, that’s how I was known, as the sister of my popular little brother.

I just don’t know who were the nerds at my school and who were the popular people. I guess the people who were in the running for homecoming court and superlatives counted as the truly popular people – they were genuinely popular because the most people voted for them when they had the choice of naming anyone in the grade. Those people were across the board though, they weren’t just the athletes or just the pretty people. They weren’t all stupid, not all the same clique/group that everyone wanted to be a part of, no, nothing like that. They were generally nice people, people that are the opposite of who the popular girls & boys on shows like “Sabrina the Teenage Witch” or “Glee” show them to be. On those shows, popular kids are insanely rude, mean, bitchy, and I don’t see how they’d actually be “popular”. Popular people are people who everyone *likes*, right?

And speaking of shows like Jimmy Neutron (lol I loved that show), what do you think about a show like Gilmore Girls, or even Kyle XY, where the main character is really smart (intrinsically again, it’s all natural talent)? They’re not “nerds” really, and Rory on Gilmore Girls did put in quite a bit of effort, that was sort of shown, especially during her high school years…

Anyway… interesting blog post and comments. This was my first time coming to this blog but I’ll probably check it out more often if I can.

Highschool and adolescence are all about trying on different identities and figuring out who you are out in the world, as well as what they want to do. I’d say bad science and math teachers, and the sexism still present around math and science, do more to turn kids off science than any ‘nerd’ stigma (that was certainly at least partly the case for me, though there were other contributing factors). If you want to make science cool, make it about the ladies Seriously. It’s not so much about attracting kids to science and tech – though obviously interesting classes and well equipped classrooms help – it’s about not turning them off in the first place.

Also, critical thinking skills can be taught just as easily in the arts, they’re in no way just a science thing.

Being intelligent doesn’t automatically make one considered a nerd and the nerd stereotype seems to be mainly inspired by Aspies and reflect the kinds of traits you see in with high functioning autism/Asperger’s (difficulty reading social cues, unathletic/uncoordinated, pedantic/memory based intelligence instead of fluid intelligence, etc). We just don’t call the smart kids who aren’t Aspies nerds and they’re no less likely to be popular than other kids. Smart kids can be insiders or outsiders, popular or unpopular, depending on their social skills. Being an Aspie will obviously make you a social outsider, being too different in any way in high school will make you into one of the freaks or geeks unless you’re exceptionally socially nimble or good looking.

I’d say the first place to start is to stop perpetuating stereotypes within science itself…you know, stuff like girls aren’t good at math.

I know these conversations are difficult because we are talking about vague concepts and not real people. I disagree with the notion that the only or main reason why “nerds” as a category are disliked is/are because of a lack of social skills. That may apply to individuals, but as a group they are looked down upon. Athletes or people interested in fashion may also be elitists or dismissive (and have terrible social skills) but they are not necessarily looked down upon for this reason.

I think what underlies all of this is the bias towards individual talents (attractiveness or physical attributes) versus hard work and a degree of anti intellectualism. The social skills thing plays a role in the stereotype and in individual situations, but that should cut across groups, all else being equal.

Just to be clear kikyo, there is a significant difference between socially awkward and anti-social (read: psychopathy). Many nerds seem to fall into the former category and a small percentage in the later. (There’s no reason to believe that nerds are more likely to have anti-social characteristics than those in the general population).

All I have is my personal experience, but I’ve never known anyone who was disliked merely because they were intelligent or enjoyed academic subjects. The only people I’ve known who were disliked by many people in a social group were usually disliked for anti-social personality traits. For example, in the example dialogue given above, smartkid may perceive themselves as merely being truthful and perceptive, but they are also being rude and dismissive.

People generally don’t like it when you casually smack down something they are enthusiastic about. Compare with this:

Kids: Wow, the Monkees/Adam Ant/Britney Spears/The Jonas Brothers are really cool!

Smarterkid: It’s not really my taste in music, but they sure are popular. I heard they even have a movie coming out. I prefer more guitar-oriented music like XXX Band, have you ever listened to them?

Smarterkid is no less intelligent than smart kid but he also knows how to have a conversation without insulting other people and their tastes. Hint: the type of music you like isn’t actually a measure of your intelligence!

Of course I agree that what you describe occasionally comes into play, but I think having narrow interests is a distinct phenomenon. There is a reflex anti-intellectualism in segments of our society that is separate from the social skills and narrow interest problem. Are intelligent people less likely to have good social skills? I don’t see why that would be true. Perhaps in your scenario the non-nerd is the one with the problem by not having the interests.

In addition, having narrow interests is more tolerated and even celebrated among athletes (Michael Phelps or any Olympic athlete has to have an extremely narrow interest for example).
On the other hand, nerds don’t necessarily have narrow interests at all. In fact I assume that most of the people reading this blog are nerds, and probably have a wide range of interests. Actually I would like to see a study on intelligence and interests. I would put my money on more intelligent people having more varied interest than less intelligent people. If that is true then that would punch a big whole in the stereotype.

Kids: Wow, the Monkees/Adam Ant/Britney Spears/The Jonas Brothers are really cool!

Smart kid: Really? Actually, I think he/she/they are just recycled manufactured pop product.

Kids: Dude/Girl, you are so uncool!

Smart kid: Ok, so we have different musical tastes. I guess we can agree to disagree.

Kids: No, you’re lame. I can’t be seen with someone lame.

Smart kid: You’re really saying we can’t be friends because I don’t like this ridiculous popstar?

Kids: I don’t understand what you just said, so later!