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	<title>Comments on: Treating Coma with Magnetic Stimulation</title>
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	<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/treating-coma-with-magnetic-stimulation/</link>
	<description>Your Daily Fix of Neuroscience, Skepticism, and Critical Thinking</description>
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		<title>By: Puppet_Master</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/treating-coma-with-magnetic-stimulation/comment-page-1/#comment-6595</link>
		<dc:creator>Puppet_Master</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=400#comment-6595</guid>
		<description>Quick correction Steve, the phrase &quot;Electrical field potential&quot;, which I believe I&#039;ve heard you use before, is not correct.

Electric fields and electric potential, although related, are not the same, and can not be mixed and matched.  The derivative of the voltage (potential) is the electric field (i.e. E=-dV(x,y,z)/dt).  In the same way that the derivative of velocity is acceleration (i.e. a=dV(v,x,y)/dt).  So you would say, &quot;the acceleration of the rocket&quot; and not, &quot;the acceleration velocity of the rocket.&quot;

Keep up the great work!  I&#039;m actually majoring in Electrical Engineering, but decided to try to get into medical school to become a neurologist.  You&#039;ve had a big influence on that and I thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quick correction Steve, the phrase &#8220;Electrical field potential&#8221;, which I believe I&#8217;ve heard you use before, is not correct.</p>
<p>Electric fields and electric potential, although related, are not the same, and can not be mixed and matched.  The derivative of the voltage (potential) is the electric field (i.e. E=-dV(x,y,z)/dt).  In the same way that the derivative of velocity is acceleration (i.e. a=dV(v,x,y)/dt).  So you would say, &#8220;the acceleration of the rocket&#8221; and not, &#8220;the acceleration velocity of the rocket.&#8221;</p>
<p>Keep up the great work!  I&#8217;m actually majoring in Electrical Engineering, but decided to try to get into medical school to become a neurologist.  You&#8217;ve had a big influence on that and I thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: TheBlackCat</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/treating-coma-with-magnetic-stimulation/comment-page-1/#comment-6549</link>
		<dc:creator>TheBlackCat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@ superdave: I understand, I was just explaining why the oscillation is so important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ superdave: I understand, I was just explaining why the oscillation is so important.</p>
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		<title>By: superdave</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/treating-coma-with-magnetic-stimulation/comment-page-1/#comment-6525</link>
		<dc:creator>superdave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 04:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=400#comment-6525</guid>
		<description>Blackcat, thanks for the post.  My point was though, that magnet pseudoscience does not involve changing magnetic fields because the magnets are usually fixed.  This is in conjunction with the fact that the magnets are also very weak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blackcat, thanks for the post.  My point was though, that magnet pseudoscience does not involve changing magnetic fields because the magnets are usually fixed.  This is in conjunction with the fact that the magnets are also very weak.</p>
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		<title>By: TheBlackCat</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/treating-coma-with-magnetic-stimulation/comment-page-1/#comment-6505</link>
		<dc:creator>TheBlackCat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=400#comment-6505</guid>
		<description>@ superdave: To put it simply, and oscillating magnetic field creates an electric field, and a oscillating electric field creates a magnetic field.  In this case they are basically using an oscillating magnetic field to create electric current deep in the brain (or other part of the body).  In others words it is a non-invasive way to shock a specific part of the brain.  It isn&#039;t the magnet itself that is important, it is the electric current the magnet creates.  

The physics behind it is no different than the magnets used to generate power in a copper wire in the turbines in your local power station (assuming you use anything other than solar power).  Magnetic stimulation just generates the electricity directly where it is needed instead of having to send it over wires.  Of course that is only the basic physics, in practice there are major differences due to the different properties of the magnetic field and different properties of the conductor (the brain), different shielding effects, and lots of other details that make the whole thing very messy in practice.  But the basic principles remain the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ superdave: To put it simply, and oscillating magnetic field creates an electric field, and a oscillating electric field creates a magnetic field.  In this case they are basically using an oscillating magnetic field to create electric current deep in the brain (or other part of the body).  In others words it is a non-invasive way to shock a specific part of the brain.  It isn&#8217;t the magnet itself that is important, it is the electric current the magnet creates.  </p>
<p>The physics behind it is no different than the magnets used to generate power in a copper wire in the turbines in your local power station (assuming you use anything other than solar power).  Magnetic stimulation just generates the electricity directly where it is needed instead of having to send it over wires.  Of course that is only the basic physics, in practice there are major differences due to the different properties of the magnetic field and different properties of the conductor (the brain), different shielding effects, and lots of other details that make the whole thing very messy in practice.  But the basic principles remain the same.</p>
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		<title>By: DevilsAdvocate</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/treating-coma-with-magnetic-stimulation/comment-page-1/#comment-6504</link>
		<dc:creator>DevilsAdvocate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=400#comment-6504</guid>
		<description>Chris Noble: &quot;If you move your head rapidly in a static magnetic field you can experience magnetophosphenes from the induced electrical fields stimulating the optic nerves.&quot;

And if you drop some acid immediately before, you experience God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Noble: &#8220;If you move your head rapidly in a static magnetic field you can experience magnetophosphenes from the induced electrical fields stimulating the optic nerves.&#8221;</p>
<p>And if you drop some acid immediately before, you experience God.</p>
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		<title>By: superdave</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/treating-coma-with-magnetic-stimulation/comment-page-1/#comment-6493</link>
		<dc:creator>superdave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=400#comment-6493</guid>
		<description>Thank&#039;s chris.  I think that is an additional explanation for why fridge style magnets won&#039;t work in this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank&#8217;s chris.  I think that is an additional explanation for why fridge style magnets won&#8217;t work in this case.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Noble</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/treating-coma-with-magnetic-stimulation/comment-page-1/#comment-6492</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Noble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=400#comment-6492</guid>
		<description>[quote]I know when it comes to using magnets to accelerate bone growth, it is the oscillating nate of the EM field that is thought to help. Is that the same case as here?[/quote]

Yes. Or to be more exact it is the rate of change of the magnetic field that is important. The induced electric field is proportional to dB/dt.

If you move your head rapidly in a static magnetic field you can experience magnetophosphenes from the induced electrical fields stimulating the optic nerves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote]I know when it comes to using magnets to accelerate bone growth, it is the oscillating nate of the EM field that is thought to help. Is that the same case as here?[/quote]</p>
<p>Yes. Or to be more exact it is the rate of change of the magnetic field that is important. The induced electric field is proportional to dB/dt.</p>
<p>If you move your head rapidly in a static magnetic field you can experience magnetophosphenes from the induced electrical fields stimulating the optic nerves.</p>
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		<title>By: superdave</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/treating-coma-with-magnetic-stimulation/comment-page-1/#comment-6491</link>
		<dc:creator>superdave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=400#comment-6491</guid>
		<description>I know when it comes to using magnets to accelerate bone growth, it is the oscillating nate of the EM field that is thought to help.  Is that the same case as here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know when it comes to using magnets to accelerate bone growth, it is the oscillating nate of the EM field that is thought to help.  Is that the same case as here?</p>
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		<title>By: wertys</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/treating-coma-with-magnetic-stimulation/comment-page-1/#comment-6489</link>
		<dc:creator>wertys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=400#comment-6489</guid>
		<description>TMS also has some promising case reports in chronic pain management but the whole idea seems just a bit too woo for me at the moment. I&#039;m watching the research closely though..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TMS also has some promising case reports in chronic pain management but the whole idea seems just a bit too woo for me at the moment. I&#8217;m watching the research closely though..</p>
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		<title>By: Nevar</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/treating-coma-with-magnetic-stimulation/comment-page-1/#comment-6484</link>
		<dc:creator>Nevar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=400#comment-6484</guid>
		<description>Steven,

I was wondering: why/how does a severe head injury cause loss of consciousness? I can understand if maybe parts of the brain are literally not there because of the accident, or have been damaged severely and are thus &quot;broken&quot;. 

The reason I ask, is because it appears as if the basic bodily functions that are regulated by the brain, are still pretty much intact during a coma (this is probably not true for all cases). I can also extend the question to being knocked out. Is the brain shutting down certain functions for protection of some kind? I assume Josh didn&#039;t open his eyes because of a conscious choice. Is it just a reflex reaction?

Then a thought about TMS. Could running a current (whether electrical or magnetic) through someone&#039;s brain cause them to think a specific thing? If we were to somehow stimulate the exact pathways needed, could we change/control what/how a person thinks? I&#039;m thinking applications like rehabilitating criminals by &quot;reprogramming&quot; their brain or helping people with addictions, etc. There would be quite a number of applications for such technology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steven,</p>
<p>I was wondering: why/how does a severe head injury cause loss of consciousness? I can understand if maybe parts of the brain are literally not there because of the accident, or have been damaged severely and are thus &#8220;broken&#8221;. </p>
<p>The reason I ask, is because it appears as if the basic bodily functions that are regulated by the brain, are still pretty much intact during a coma (this is probably not true for all cases). I can also extend the question to being knocked out. Is the brain shutting down certain functions for protection of some kind? I assume Josh didn&#8217;t open his eyes because of a conscious choice. Is it just a reflex reaction?</p>
<p>Then a thought about TMS. Could running a current (whether electrical or magnetic) through someone&#8217;s brain cause them to think a specific thing? If we were to somehow stimulate the exact pathways needed, could we change/control what/how a person thinks? I&#8217;m thinking applications like rehabilitating criminals by &#8220;reprogramming&#8221; their brain or helping people with addictions, etc. There would be quite a number of applications for such technology.</p>
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