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	<title>Comments on: Shark Cartilage &#8211; No Benefit for Lung Cancer</title>
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	<description>Your Daily Fix of Neuroscience, Skepticism, and Critical Thinking</description>
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		<title>By: Calli Arcale</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/shark-cartilage-no-benefit-for-lung-cancer/comment-page-1/#comment-21861</link>
		<dc:creator>Calli Arcale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 14:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1998#comment-21861</guid>
		<description>Carl:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The reason sharks don’t develop cancer very often is because they have (on average) low metabolisms and low growth rates, and don’t turn over their cells as often as us mammals.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That makes sense.  I had always suspected that a paucity of data (most sharks are pelagic, after all, which makes them harder to study) was the real reason we didn&#039;t see much cancer in sharks, but that explanation makes more sense.

I never understood why some people attributed it to their cartilage.  It just seems kind of random.  Why not their meat?  Or their gills?  Organs?  Fins?  (That one would go well with the claim that Asian people don&#039;t get as much cancer -- shark fin soup, after all.)  Obviously, they didn&#039;t understand why sharks weren&#039;t getting cancer; so why pick on the cartilage?  There must have been some reason, but I&#039;m not familiar with the history of shark cartilage for cancer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl:</p>
<blockquote><p>The reason sharks don’t develop cancer very often is because they have (on average) low metabolisms and low growth rates, and don’t turn over their cells as often as us mammals.</p></blockquote>
<p>That makes sense.  I had always suspected that a paucity of data (most sharks are pelagic, after all, which makes them harder to study) was the real reason we didn&#8217;t see much cancer in sharks, but that explanation makes more sense.</p>
<p>I never understood why some people attributed it to their cartilage.  It just seems kind of random.  Why not their meat?  Or their gills?  Organs?  Fins?  (That one would go well with the claim that Asian people don&#8217;t get as much cancer &#8212; shark fin soup, after all.)  Obviously, they didn&#8217;t understand why sharks weren&#8217;t getting cancer; so why pick on the cartilage?  There must have been some reason, but I&#8217;m not familiar with the history of shark cartilage for cancer.</p>
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		<title>By: sonic</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/shark-cartilage-no-benefit-for-lung-cancer/comment-page-1/#comment-21572</link>
		<dc:creator>sonic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 08:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1998#comment-21572</guid>
		<description>Shark cartilage doesn&#039;t cure cancer- that&#039;s too bad.  I mean it would be nice if it did...

The point that we don&#039;t have effective regulation of health products is well stated and important to realize IMHO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shark cartilage doesn&#8217;t cure cancer- that&#8217;s too bad.  I mean it would be nice if it did&#8230;</p>
<p>The point that we don&#8217;t have effective regulation of health products is well stated and important to realize IMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: ccbowers</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/shark-cartilage-no-benefit-for-lung-cancer/comment-page-1/#comment-21543</link>
		<dc:creator>ccbowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 01:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1998#comment-21543</guid>
		<description>Yes, science is becoming more and more specialized beyond what the average person can truly understand, but thats where critical thinking comes into play.  Combined with a general scientific literacy, it allows people to make reasonable judgements about things they may not completely understand by using some basic principles that apply to many topics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, science is becoming more and more specialized beyond what the average person can truly understand, but thats where critical thinking comes into play.  Combined with a general scientific literacy, it allows people to make reasonable judgements about things they may not completely understand by using some basic principles that apply to many topics.</p>
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		<title>By: DLC</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/shark-cartilage-no-benefit-for-lung-cancer/comment-page-1/#comment-21513</link>
		<dc:creator>DLC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 07:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1998#comment-21513</guid>
		<description>This even had to be investigated ?
What possible mechanism would be at work here ?
Shark Cartilage ... cancer... Sorry, just not seeing it. 
I remember the whole &quot;shark cartilage for arthritis&quot; thing, and if I remember right there was another &quot;shark cartilage as antioxidant&quot; thing.  And none of it ever showed more than placebo effect in properly run trials.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This even had to be investigated ?<br />
What possible mechanism would be at work here ?<br />
Shark Cartilage &#8230; cancer&#8230; Sorry, just not seeing it.<br />
I remember the whole &#8220;shark cartilage for arthritis&#8221; thing, and if I remember right there was another &#8220;shark cartilage as antioxidant&#8221; thing.  And none of it ever showed more than placebo effect in properly run trials.</p>
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		<title>By: BillyJoe7</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/shark-cartilage-no-benefit-for-lung-cancer/comment-page-1/#comment-21507</link>
		<dc:creator>BillyJoe7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 06:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1998#comment-21507</guid>
		<description>An unscientific anecdote...

My impatience for unscientific alternative medicine was triggered by a friend, or an acquaintance who became a friend, who suffered, not from lung cancer, but from colon cancer and who was conscripted into the cause of alternative medicine by a well meaning but ignorant friend who convinced him that shark cartilege could save his life.

He&#039;d had all the conventional medical treatments, including surgery and chemotherapy, but unfortunately went on to develop incurable disease. So, at the age of 28, he faced an illness which was to prove fatal within about 6 months. He and his wife had decided to use the time that remained to fulfill a dream they always had of travelling around Australia by car. They cashed in part of his life insurance and were about to set off when the so called &quot;miracle cure&quot; was dropped into his lap.

What to do? They pondered the question for several days. But eventually they decided that he just had to give it a go. The travel plans were put on hold and off he went to the &quot;miracle worker&quot;. The &quot;miracle worker&quot; in this case happened to be a medical practitioner with an interest in alternative medicine, which sort of lent some legitimacy to the treatment. 

For five months he had weekly shark cartilege injections given by this doctor. Of course the treatments had no effect whatsoever. The scans showed the cancer was progressing. But the real revelation occured when he did some investigation about the treatment he was being given and discovered that, over and above his consultation fee, this doctor was marking up the price of the actual injection by over 200%!

Unfortunately, he lost five months to this self-serving quack and his self-serving quackery, so that when he and his wife finally set off on their trip, he was already beginning to suffer from some of the early symptoms of preogressive disease. Within a few weeks he had developed incessant vomiting and extreme fatigue and had to be flown home. Within a few days he was admitted into hospital for terminal care and he died a few weeks later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An unscientific anecdote&#8230;</p>
<p>My impatience for unscientific alternative medicine was triggered by a friend, or an acquaintance who became a friend, who suffered, not from lung cancer, but from colon cancer and who was conscripted into the cause of alternative medicine by a well meaning but ignorant friend who convinced him that shark cartilege could save his life.</p>
<p>He&#8217;d had all the conventional medical treatments, including surgery and chemotherapy, but unfortunately went on to develop incurable disease. So, at the age of 28, he faced an illness which was to prove fatal within about 6 months. He and his wife had decided to use the time that remained to fulfill a dream they always had of travelling around Australia by car. They cashed in part of his life insurance and were about to set off when the so called &#8220;miracle cure&#8221; was dropped into his lap.</p>
<p>What to do? They pondered the question for several days. But eventually they decided that he just had to give it a go. The travel plans were put on hold and off he went to the &#8220;miracle worker&#8221;. The &#8220;miracle worker&#8221; in this case happened to be a medical practitioner with an interest in alternative medicine, which sort of lent some legitimacy to the treatment. </p>
<p>For five months he had weekly shark cartilege injections given by this doctor. Of course the treatments had no effect whatsoever. The scans showed the cancer was progressing. But the real revelation occured when he did some investigation about the treatment he was being given and discovered that, over and above his consultation fee, this doctor was marking up the price of the actual injection by over 200%!</p>
<p>Unfortunately, he lost five months to this self-serving quack and his self-serving quackery, so that when he and his wife finally set off on their trip, he was already beginning to suffer from some of the early symptoms of preogressive disease. Within a few weeks he had developed incessant vomiting and extreme fatigue and had to be flown home. Within a few days he was admitted into hospital for terminal care and he died a few weeks later.</p>
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		<title>By: BillyJoe7</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/shark-cartilage-no-benefit-for-lung-cancer/comment-page-1/#comment-21504</link>
		<dc:creator>BillyJoe7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 05:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1998#comment-21504</guid>
		<description>PScott,

&quot;a great deal of energy seems to be spent ranting about how the general population is so darned ignorant. &quot;

I don&#039;t think it is productive to rant against the general population of science illiterate people. I used to be science illiterate myself. But it is painful to see some scientifically educated people around here rant on about their pet theories seemingly oblivious to the very unscientific attitude they take towards them. 

They seem to know the scientific facts, but do not seem to be conversant with scientific methodology itself, and they extrapolate wildly beyond the empirically derived facts in support of their pet theories. 

They seem to be unable to distinguish between the practical assumptions of science by which science moves forward and their own pre-conceived endpoints into which they conscript science. Science, in this sense, is the master, not the servant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PScott,</p>
<p>&#8220;a great deal of energy seems to be spent ranting about how the general population is so darned ignorant. &#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it is productive to rant against the general population of science illiterate people. I used to be science illiterate myself. But it is painful to see some scientifically educated people around here rant on about their pet theories seemingly oblivious to the very unscientific attitude they take towards them. </p>
<p>They seem to know the scientific facts, but do not seem to be conversant with scientific methodology itself, and they extrapolate wildly beyond the empirically derived facts in support of their pet theories. </p>
<p>They seem to be unable to distinguish between the practical assumptions of science by which science moves forward and their own pre-conceived endpoints into which they conscript science. Science, in this sense, is the master, not the servant.</p>
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		<title>By: ccbowers</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/shark-cartilage-no-benefit-for-lung-cancer/comment-page-1/#comment-21499</link>
		<dc:creator>ccbowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 03:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1998#comment-21499</guid>
		<description>&#039;Wasting public funds researching clearly bogus CAM claims is a subjugation of science by irrational thinking and should offend anyone with an appreciation for science.&#039;

This is an important point, concisely written.  People often overlook the problem because it is in some ways a subtle subjugation.

&quot;Anyway, the real question is this: What good does it do to expound on your frustrations and complaints. There’s limited energy in the universe, right? So why not put some of those limited resources into positive solutions?&quot;

Listen, I hear you and I agree with the perspective... but you have to consider the venue here.  What good does it do?  Sometimes engaging in conversation about such topics help with insight into the mechanisms of these problems of critical thinking.  Its not just &#039;people are stupid, blah, blah, blah&#039; but the who, what, where, when, why and how.  Sometimes if we can obtain some insight, it is easier to help ourselves and others.  And who says that positive solutions don&#039;t come from people who also complain.  Its not an either/or situation.  

Angry egghead in a box is a problem that I&#039;ve seen, but I think frustrated is more common.  I think most people are not that dismissive of others as much as they may write in the comments of a blog.  

Positive comments are less likely when we are talking about selling false hope to cancer victims</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Wasting public funds researching clearly bogus CAM claims is a subjugation of science by irrational thinking and should offend anyone with an appreciation for science.&#8217;</p>
<p>This is an important point, concisely written.  People often overlook the problem because it is in some ways a subtle subjugation.</p>
<p>&#8220;Anyway, the real question is this: What good does it do to expound on your frustrations and complaints. There’s limited energy in the universe, right? So why not put some of those limited resources into positive solutions?&#8221;</p>
<p>Listen, I hear you and I agree with the perspective&#8230; but you have to consider the venue here.  What good does it do?  Sometimes engaging in conversation about such topics help with insight into the mechanisms of these problems of critical thinking.  Its not just &#8216;people are stupid, blah, blah, blah&#8217; but the who, what, where, when, why and how.  Sometimes if we can obtain some insight, it is easier to help ourselves and others.  And who says that positive solutions don&#8217;t come from people who also complain.  Its not an either/or situation.  </p>
<p>Angry egghead in a box is a problem that I&#8217;ve seen, but I think frustrated is more common.  I think most people are not that dismissive of others as much as they may write in the comments of a blog.  </p>
<p>Positive comments are less likely when we are talking about selling false hope to cancer victims</p>
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		<title>By: PScott</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/shark-cartilage-no-benefit-for-lung-cancer/comment-page-1/#comment-21497</link>
		<dc:creator>PScott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 02:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1998#comment-21497</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m new to the blog, and am loving it.
I have to offer an objective warning though- and that is that  a great deal of energy seems to be spent ranting about how the general population is so darned ignorant. 

It&#039;s true. We know it. And I think even more people than you&#039;d guess even know that they aren&#039;t educated. Bad syntax on that one, but I think you know what I mean.

Anyway, the real question is this: What good does it do to expound on your frustrations and complaints.

There&#039;s limited energy in the universe, right? So why not put some of those limited resources into positive solutions?

Just a little warning,
No one wants to look like the angry egghead grumbling in a box.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m new to the blog, and am loving it.<br />
I have to offer an objective warning though- and that is that  a great deal of energy seems to be spent ranting about how the general population is so darned ignorant. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s true. We know it. And I think even more people than you&#8217;d guess even know that they aren&#8217;t educated. Bad syntax on that one, but I think you know what I mean.</p>
<p>Anyway, the real question is this: What good does it do to expound on your frustrations and complaints.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s limited energy in the universe, right? So why not put some of those limited resources into positive solutions?</p>
<p>Just a little warning,<br />
No one wants to look like the angry egghead grumbling in a box.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/shark-cartilage-no-benefit-for-lung-cancer/comment-page-1/#comment-21496</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 02:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1998#comment-21496</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s irrelevant anyway, the reason sharks don’t develop cancer very often is because they get regular exercise and don’t eat processed food, and they can’t smoke underwater.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The reason sharks don&#039;t develop cancer very often is because they have (on average) low metabolisms and low growth rates, and don&#039;t turn over their cells as often as us mammals.  Fewer cell divisions means fewer chances for somatic mutations during mitosis means less chance of activating an oncogene.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It’s irrelevant anyway, the reason sharks don’t develop cancer very often is because they get regular exercise and don’t eat processed food, and they can’t smoke underwater.</p></blockquote>
<p>The reason sharks don&#8217;t develop cancer very often is because they have (on average) low metabolisms and low growth rates, and don&#8217;t turn over their cells as often as us mammals.  Fewer cell divisions means fewer chances for somatic mutations during mitosis means less chance of activating an oncogene.</p>
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		<title>By: B Hitt</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/shark-cartilage-no-benefit-for-lung-cancer/comment-page-1/#comment-21494</link>
		<dc:creator>B Hitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 02:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1998#comment-21494</guid>
		<description>Yes, I second the frustration about continuing research in unpromising areas.  In basic science research, no matter how enthusiastically you cling to a given pet theory, if it has low prior probability coupled with consistently negative empirical results, there is no way in hell you&#039;re getting any further investigation of it funded.  There should absolutely not be a special case exception in clinical research for any claim that involves irrational albeit popular beliefs.  Wasting public funds researching clearly bogus CAM claims is a subjugation of science by irrational thinking and should offend anyone with an appreciation for science.  

This would not be a huge issue if we lived in an economy with a surplus of research funds, but right now given the NIH funding threshold in most fields, you have to imagine that boatloads of promising proposals are sitting on the NIH&#039;s desk unfunded while we do yet another study that tells us that &quot;yup, shark cartilage is just pseudoscientific wishful thinking.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I second the frustration about continuing research in unpromising areas.  In basic science research, no matter how enthusiastically you cling to a given pet theory, if it has low prior probability coupled with consistently negative empirical results, there is no way in hell you&#8217;re getting any further investigation of it funded.  There should absolutely not be a special case exception in clinical research for any claim that involves irrational albeit popular beliefs.  Wasting public funds researching clearly bogus CAM claims is a subjugation of science by irrational thinking and should offend anyone with an appreciation for science.  </p>
<p>This would not be a huge issue if we lived in an economy with a surplus of research funds, but right now given the NIH funding threshold in most fields, you have to imagine that boatloads of promising proposals are sitting on the NIH&#8217;s desk unfunded while we do yet another study that tells us that &#8220;yup, shark cartilage is just pseudoscientific wishful thinking.&#8221;</p>
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