There is a need for a separate Secular movement directed at Church/State, educational and medical issues where the rational leaning religious and non-religious can ally to resist the legislation of one faction’s ideological agenda or blatant pseudo-science. ‘

There is the Americans United for Separation of Church and State which tackles a lot of these issues, and they are comprised of a mix of religious and non-religious individuals.

Unfortunately, the conflation of atheism and secularism comes from both sides, and I agree that it can be incorrect and even damaging (much like a lot of things that have more recently become associated with atheism). Of course, the ones who want to eliminate secularism are from the fundamentalist religious camps, but that does not mean that religious people can’t also support secularism.

This was my experience as well after 30 years of fundamental christianity. I agree with the idea that political views should be informed by science and reason, and it bothers me when a strong political ideology is promoted instead of promoting the reasonable discussion of individual issues. Just because Democrat and Republican platforms put ideas into neat packages does not mean that is the best way to do it. Consequently, I like the SGU because it looks at individual ideas and applies critical thinking skills to each one. I am gay therefore Democrat seems to me to be the opposite of critical thinking just as much as saying “I believe in market capitalism therefore I love Jesus.”

Now, if I can just convince my mother to really critically look at the CAM crap she is involved in!!!

There is a need for a separate Secular movement directed at Church/State, educational and medical issues where the rational leaning religious and non-religious can ally to resist the legislation of one faction’s ideological agenda or blatant pseudo-science.

@Steve Novella:
The SGU has been a very big part of my journey into skepticism and eventually to atheism. I truly value you’re adherence to Scientific Skepticism and maintaining distance from religious and political debate.

When I started listening three years ago (with episode 1) I considered myself post-Christian, no longer being able to swallow the dogma, but didn’t have a good idea where to go or how to define myself. At the time, I was not willing to completely give up on there being some kind of mysticism that was true, wanted to believe in psychic phenomenon, and didn’t have much of a clue about pseudo-science and CAM.

At that time, I would not have been open to anti-religious or deeply political dialog, but was hungry to hear about the frontiers of Science and how to think critically. I especially enjoyed Episode 109 when Perry gave his talk. In the end, I became an atheist because I had become a skeptic and that’s where the math led.

I also read PZ and honestly believe that you’ve hit the nail on the head. While getting Atheism out and accepted is important, there needs to be a place for people to go when in the process of deconverting. Also, I have met atheists who beleive in homeopathy and aliens, who embrace conspiracy theories and are as credulous as many believers about crazy things. Only some atheists are skeptics, and skeptical atheists also need to be teaching their own the basics of critical thinking.

this appears to be an attempt to redefine secularism.
“Secularism is the principle of separation of government institutions, and the persons mandated to represent the State, from religious institutions and religious dignitaries.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism

It protects both government and religion from undue influence by each other, and protects different religions from legal control over each other. Religious minorities in the US certainly support secularism so I don’t think we can say it equates to atheism, agnosticism – or – maybe humanism, although most religions profess a humanistic orientation.

I don’t think atheists should be trying to hide their beliefs in “secularism” and “humanism”. They have rights. And if they wish to be activists one step they can take is to work to abolish the tax-exempt status of churches. Or perhaps institute their own church of anti-theism and raise money to advance atheism.

I’m a Christian, but I love atheists and I appreciate what they do to counterbalance religious superstition, dogma and anti-science nonsense. One way Christians have successfully prosthelytized is by offering modern medicine to those who don’t have it “in the name of God”. Perhaps atheists could help to establish health care for the poor with a humanistic message and thereby convert the poor to godlessness.

This is turning into FTB lol. Sad.

The simple fact that you would even bother to make s*** like this up is pretty good f***ing evidence that you are in fact a misogynist

Thank you for making my point for me. I would consider you representative of those who frequent FTB and the reason why I don’t frequent it anymore, nor do I consider it a haven for skepticism.

The simple fact that you would even bother to make shit like this up is pretty good fucking evidence that you are in fact a misogynist

Thank you for making my point for me. I would consider you representative of those who frequent FTB and the reason why I don’t frequent it anymore, nor do I consider it a haven for skepticism.

There are many self-ascribed feminists, however, that have gone far beyond the simple definition above and have turned it into a firebrand. Sex is rape, males enjoy unequivocal power and influence in society that benefits only them, women are subjugated at every turn, men are considered favored in all facets of society, and women are considered unequal and incapable in all facets of society.
As a skeptic, I find these to be fairly outrageous claims, not to mention an insult to me given that I am for equal standing, consideration, respect, and opportunity for all. The claims have little basis in reality and ignore the inequities that men in society face on their own. Their claims are often emotional appeals and their accusations strawmen. Much of their belief is faith-based.

@rezistnzisfutl You made specific claims without a single citation related to those claims. You couched your words to hide who you might be talking about but made them direct enough so that anyone who was actually knowledgeable about the subject knows perfectly well who you are referring to.

You can not cite a single feminist on FTB who made the statements you wish to put in their mouths. This alone makes you a liar. You also can’t cite anything from my past posts that support the claims you made about me, again you are a liar.

The simple fact that you would even bother to make shit like this up is pretty good fucking evidence that you are in fact a misogynist, that is probably why you were called one on FTB. But I’ll tell you what, post some links to where it happened and let us judge whether it was them or you who were wrong.

I have no doubt that you are opposed to sexism, racism, homophobia, etc, but it’s nice to see it articulated. Thanks.