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	<title>Comments on: Richard Dawkins &#8211; Agnostic</title>
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	<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/richard-dawkins-agnostic/</link>
	<description>Your Daily Fix of Neuroscience, Skepticism, and Critical Thinking</description>
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		<title>By: BillyJoe7</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/richard-dawkins-agnostic/comment-page-5/#comment-40743</link>
		<dc:creator>BillyJoe7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4203#comment-40743</guid>
		<description>Steven Novella,

I remain surprised that you saw fit to criticise my account of the contents of Lawrence Krauss&#039; book without actually having read the book yourself. 

The video you watched is of a lecture on the topic that he gave two and a half years ago. It covers only the first two thirds of the book - which was published this year. The video does not contain the information that I provided here that is contained in the last third of the book. Therefore you could have no idea whether the information I provided is correct or not. 

I also believe that the comment made to you by Lawrence Krauss was, in all probability, context specific and that he could not have been addressing the additional points he made in the last third of his book.

In all fairness, you should retract your opinion about what I have said here and read the book before commenting further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steven Novella,</p>
<p>I remain surprised that you saw fit to criticise my account of the contents of Lawrence Krauss&#8217; book without actually having read the book yourself. </p>
<p>The video you watched is of a lecture on the topic that he gave two and a half years ago. It covers only the first two thirds of the book &#8211; which was published this year. The video does not contain the information that I provided here that is contained in the last third of the book. Therefore you could have no idea whether the information I provided is correct or not. </p>
<p>I also believe that the comment made to you by Lawrence Krauss was, in all probability, context specific and that he could not have been addressing the additional points he made in the last third of his book.</p>
<p>In all fairness, you should retract your opinion about what I have said here and read the book before commenting further.</p>
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		<title>By: nybgrus</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/richard-dawkins-agnostic/comment-page-5/#comment-40723</link>
		<dc:creator>nybgrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4203#comment-40723</guid>
		<description>then keep thinking. You are clearly lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>then keep thinking. You are clearly lost.</p>
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		<title>By: cwfong</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/richard-dawkins-agnostic/comment-page-5/#comment-40722</link>
		<dc:creator>cwfong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 08:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4203#comment-40722</guid>
		<description>nubgrys, I&#039;m thinking that I understand what you&#039;re not saying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nubgrys, I&#8217;m thinking that I understand what you&#8217;re not saying.</p>
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		<title>By: nybgrus</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/richard-dawkins-agnostic/comment-page-5/#comment-40721</link>
		<dc:creator>nybgrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 06:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Cfwong:

No. you have not understood what I am saying. Not even close. Keep thinking on it. maybe you will get it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cfwong:</p>
<p>No. you have not understood what I am saying. Not even close. Keep thinking on it. maybe you will get it</p>
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		<title>By: cwfong</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/richard-dawkins-agnostic/comment-page-5/#comment-40715</link>
		<dc:creator>cwfong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 19:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4203#comment-40715</guid>
		<description>nybgrus: So now your argument is that for a very short time there was a bit of nothing within a lot of something.  So that the big bang could have come from that bit of nothing, and the rest of the universe of something was non-causative, and for all intents and purposes disappeared.
A universal function analogous with the potential energy of rocks, then?  
Krauss in a nutshell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nybgrus: So now your argument is that for a very short time there was a bit of nothing within a lot of something.  So that the big bang could have come from that bit of nothing, and the rest of the universe of something was non-causative, and for all intents and purposes disappeared.<br />
A universal function analogous with the potential energy of rocks, then?<br />
Krauss in a nutshell.</p>
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		<title>By: cwfong</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/richard-dawkins-agnostic/comment-page-5/#comment-40714</link>
		<dc:creator>cwfong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 19:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4203#comment-40714</guid>
		<description>nybgrus, 
Equivocate much?
A true zero decays?  

decay &#124;diˈkā&#124;
verb [ intrans. ]
(of organic matter) rot or decompose through the action of bacteria and fungi : [as adj. ] ( decayed) a decayed cabbage leaf &#124; [as adj. ] ( decaying) the odor of decaying fish.
• [ trans. ] cause to rot or decompose : the fungus will decay soft timber.
• (of a building or area) fall into disrepair; deteriorate : urban neighborhoods decay when elevated freeways replace surface roads.
• decline in quality, power, or vigor : the moral authority of the party was decaying.
• Physics (of a radioactive substance, particle, etc.) undergo change to a different form by emitting radiation : the trapped radiocarbon begins to decay at a known rate.
• technical (of a physical quantity) undergo a gradual decrease : the time taken for the current to decay to zero.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nybgrus,<br />
Equivocate much?<br />
A true zero decays?  </p>
<p>decay |diˈkā|<br />
verb [ intrans. ]<br />
(of organic matter) rot or decompose through the action of bacteria and fungi : [as adj. ] ( decayed) a decayed cabbage leaf | [as adj. ] ( decaying) the odor of decaying fish.<br />
• [ trans. ] cause to rot or decompose : the fungus will decay soft timber.<br />
• (of a building or area) fall into disrepair; deteriorate : urban neighborhoods decay when elevated freeways replace surface roads.<br />
• decline in quality, power, or vigor : the moral authority of the party was decaying.<br />
• Physics (of a radioactive substance, particle, etc.) undergo change to a different form by emitting radiation : the trapped radiocarbon begins to decay at a known rate.<br />
• technical (of a physical quantity) undergo a gradual decrease : the time taken for the current to decay to zero.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: nybgrus</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/richard-dawkins-agnostic/comment-page-5/#comment-40713</link>
		<dc:creator>nybgrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 18:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4203#comment-40713</guid>
		<description>Once again, I believe the difference is a purely semantic one. As Dr. Novella has just pointed out, the reality is that our notion of &quot;nothing&quot; and &quot;something&quot; simply do not apply here. The distinction breaks down.

From my understanding (and I have not read Krauss&#039; book, but I have read others and seen the video) it is the concept that what we generally conceive of as &quot;nothing&quot; (i.e. a &quot;space&quot; completely and utterly devoid of absolutely everything, incuding energy - a &quot;true zero&quot; if you will) simply cannot and does not exist. &lt;i&gt;Why&lt;/i&gt; this is the case is interesting. Once again, my understanding is that this is simply a property of space - &quot;true zero&quot; is unstable and thus will constantly be spontaneously generating &quot;virtual&quot; particles. 

However, by the statistical nature of quantum uncertainty, there does exist a point in space-time that &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; completely devoid of everything. In other words, &quot;true zero&quot; &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; exist. However, we cannot predict when or where or for how long. We do know that it is for a &lt;b&gt;very&lt;/b&gt; short time. But that &quot;true zero&quot; does indeed spontaneously generate these virtual particles &lt;i&gt;without the need for outside energy to be added&lt;/i&gt;.

To me, &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; is the concept of &quot;something&quot; from &quot;nothing.&quot; 

Now, what will take a section of that statistical &quot;true zero&quot; and allow it to expand into an entire universe? I believe that question is unanswered. But the fact of the matter is that, even if for the briefest of times and completely unpredictable, there existed a &quot;true zero&quot; which spontaneously decayed into &quot;something&quot; which was under the right conditions to then undergo inflationary universe creation. Obviously this scenario (the last part) is rare enough that we don&#039;t see it happening in our solar system, or even our galaxy (so far). But how rare is it actually? Once again, we don&#039;t know. Even if it only happens to be the right circumstances in 1 of 1,000 galaxies, that is still extremely common. And it may turn out that it doesn&#039;t actually happen - but from what I know on the topic, the evidence seems to be pointing us to that as a reasonable conclusion waiting to be empirically verified. 

Does that seem like a reasonable understanding based on your interactions with Krauss, Dr. Novella?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, I believe the difference is a purely semantic one. As Dr. Novella has just pointed out, the reality is that our notion of &#8220;nothing&#8221; and &#8220;something&#8221; simply do not apply here. The distinction breaks down.</p>
<p>From my understanding (and I have not read Krauss&#8217; book, but I have read others and seen the video) it is the concept that what we generally conceive of as &#8220;nothing&#8221; (i.e. a &#8220;space&#8221; completely and utterly devoid of absolutely everything, incuding energy &#8211; a &#8220;true zero&#8221; if you will) simply cannot and does not exist. <i>Why</i> this is the case is interesting. Once again, my understanding is that this is simply a property of space &#8211; &#8220;true zero&#8221; is unstable and thus will constantly be spontaneously generating &#8220;virtual&#8221; particles. </p>
<p>However, by the statistical nature of quantum uncertainty, there does exist a point in space-time that <i>is</i> completely devoid of everything. In other words, &#8220;true zero&#8221; <i>does</i> exist. However, we cannot predict when or where or for how long. We do know that it is for a <b>very</b> short time. But that &#8220;true zero&#8221; does indeed spontaneously generate these virtual particles <i>without the need for outside energy to be added</i>.</p>
<p>To me, <i>that</i> is the concept of &#8220;something&#8221; from &#8220;nothing.&#8221; </p>
<p>Now, what will take a section of that statistical &#8220;true zero&#8221; and allow it to expand into an entire universe? I believe that question is unanswered. But the fact of the matter is that, even if for the briefest of times and completely unpredictable, there existed a &#8220;true zero&#8221; which spontaneously decayed into &#8220;something&#8221; which was under the right conditions to then undergo inflationary universe creation. Obviously this scenario (the last part) is rare enough that we don&#8217;t see it happening in our solar system, or even our galaxy (so far). But how rare is it actually? Once again, we don&#8217;t know. Even if it only happens to be the right circumstances in 1 of 1,000 galaxies, that is still extremely common. And it may turn out that it doesn&#8217;t actually happen &#8211; but from what I know on the topic, the evidence seems to be pointing us to that as a reasonable conclusion waiting to be empirically verified. </p>
<p>Does that seem like a reasonable understanding based on your interactions with Krauss, Dr. Novella?</p>
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		<title>By: cwfong</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/richard-dawkins-agnostic/comment-page-5/#comment-40712</link>
		<dc:creator>cwfong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Probably overstated.  But probably not wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Probably overstated.  But probably not wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: BillyJoe7</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/richard-dawkins-agnostic/comment-page-5/#comment-40709</link>
		<dc:creator>BillyJoe7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 11:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4203#comment-40709</guid>
		<description>&quot;What I can tell you is that the book resembles the video in name only&quot;

After perusing the book again this afternoon, I think I&#039;ve probably overstated this. In fact, the first two thirds of the book follows the video (but with a lot more detail). The last third is not covered in the video, and it is largely this information which my posts have been addressing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What I can tell you is that the book resembles the video in name only&#8221;</p>
<p>After perusing the book again this afternoon, I think I&#8217;ve probably overstated this. In fact, the first two thirds of the book follows the video (but with a lot more detail). The last third is not covered in the video, and it is largely this information which my posts have been addressing.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cwfong</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/richard-dawkins-agnostic/comment-page-5/#comment-40708</link>
		<dc:creator>cwfong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 07:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4203#comment-40708</guid>
		<description>BJ7,
&quot;FYI – I have actually spoken with Krauss about this.&quot;  Dr. Novella wrote that.  Did he get this personal assurance wrong then? In spite of the video?
And will Krauss have written something in the book that was different from the video when he says in the book that he wrote it to make what was said in the video clearer?  Is it your sincere belief that the book will reveal his new opinion that there was after all no &quot;quantum stuff&#039; in what was previously believed by non-scientists to be an empty universe?  
If you can&#039;t admit you could be wrong about some aspect of science, how can you learn anything that&#039;s significantly new about that science?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BJ7,<br />
&#8220;FYI – I have actually spoken with Krauss about this.&#8221;  Dr. Novella wrote that.  Did he get this personal assurance wrong then? In spite of the video?<br />
And will Krauss have written something in the book that was different from the video when he says in the book that he wrote it to make what was said in the video clearer?  Is it your sincere belief that the book will reveal his new opinion that there was after all no &#8220;quantum stuff&#8217; in what was previously believed by non-scientists to be an empty universe?<br />
If you can&#8217;t admit you could be wrong about some aspect of science, how can you learn anything that&#8217;s significantly new about that science?</p>
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