With best Christmas and New Year wishes!

October 2011, Methusalem Meier, Son of Billy Meier speaks out: “Dear Father, I’ve had enough!”

“Methusalem Meier (38), the second-oldest son of the controversial Swiss “UFO prophet” Billy Meier (74), has finally had enough: In an open letter, twelve pages long, he casts a very harsh judgement on his father, but also on himself – and equally on the members of Billy’s controversial UFO sect, FIGU, and its alien fairytales.
The accusations are substantial: Methusalem accuses his father of being physically violent both to his mother, Kalliope, and himself over the course of many years.

Why has he done so publicly? “Because I want to distance myself once and for all from the nasty games and machinations of my father – in order finally to start a new life.”
The entire german letter from Methusalem Meier can be downloaded as a PDF file (see the link below).
In contrast to Billy, Methusalem Meier is willing at all times to answer questions: “I have nothing to hide. It’s high time that the world discovers the sad truth about my father.”

Whoever wants to contact Methusalem Meier personally can do so at his direct e-mail address: methi77@bluewin.ch”

http://www.mysteries-magazin.com/index.php?op=news&func=news&id=5272&PHPSESSID=15bfd8cccd6a0cbe7e5f24625c48f423

The complete open letter of Methusalem Meier in German is hier:
http://www.mysteries-magazin.com/dokumente/meier.pdf

Any special pleading left, Mahigitam?

Again, its a false statement. There is somuch information outside Meier. I will leave it here;if you are interested, i dont have a problem to share. As i see, most of us can only see the world in a fragmented way.
When we are dealing with a case(ET interaction) of enormous magnitude that has the potential to effect the whole of humanity in all dimensions of life;which demands the help of best minds on earth from all disciplines: historians, anthropologists, psychologists, linguists, philosophers, sociologists, political theorists, economists, physicists, biologists, policy makers, legislators, theologians, world leaders, Intelligence/security experts,….the least thing that we can do is to read what their results were, which they have arrived after meticulous research in their fields & also in conjunction with other fields(which is the most important of all).

But what most of us do, is to narrow down such a world-changing event to a single discipline(science) demanding ‘hard, conclusive, undeniable proof’, which is ridiculous, immature and cannot come from an objective, scientific mind; and ignoring the rest of the valuable fields.

“He was then as zealous and fanatical as you are now in the defence of the incredible bunch of contradictions and discrepancies in the story of Billy Meier against critical thinking, logic, reason and just common sense, so much he wanted this tale to be true.”

I am not, i am just showing contradictions in your own statements, which you failed to backup. You haven’t shown any research paper by experts showing that ‘hard, conclusive, undeniable proof’ can sustain from the military-industrial complexes, power elite, corporations, defense/military intelligences,…and also that humanity wont be effected much from an ET interaction. Words like ‘critical thinking, logic, reason and common sense’ seems to have lost their meaning because everyone who doesnt employ them uses it all the time.

I cannot comment on your friends decisions, not all are objective, unbiased, w/o preconceptions & intelligent. But i would like to see the points, that made your friend to take that decision. I am all ears.

“I sincerely hope for you, that the disappointment to come, would be less devastating for you.”

Thanks for your concern, Ted. But remember one thing, i dont gain or loose anything from saying this: When others show/raise our logical inconsistencies, contradictions, fallacies,…try to listen and change to adapt to your hypothesis, which you never seem to have attempted. You have even ignored the scientific possibilities/probabilities offered by hard working scientists & havent even shown any counter arguments for that. There exist many other alternatives for the same evidence; thats what happens in legal and scientific theories. Sticking onto only one alternative is the sign of killing objectivity.

If we want to ignore this ET interaction scenario and directly go to the evidence, (metal samples, prophecies, …); I am happy to do that as well. Evidence of involvement of agencies to thwart, manipulate, steal evidence is ample and available in Meier story; if one wants to hear & am ready to discuss on that too.

Have a nice day..

Anyway, good luck, mahigitam.

Well, i will leave there.

Before i go, just let me tell you one more thing:
At the beginning of this discussion, i wrote, that i have been following the case of Billy Meier for some time now.
The point is, that my friend was a member of the FIGU Swiss discussion board for about 8 years, until a month or so ago.
He read, studied most of the books of Billy Meier in the German language and was even about to become a FIGU passive member.
He was then as zealous and fanatical as you are now in the defence of the incredible bunch of contradictions and discrepancies in the story of Billy Meier against critical thinking, logic, reason and just common sense, so much he wanted this tale to be true.
It has been a terrible blow for him to realize, that he was fooled and was fooling himself, that the story told by Billy Meier is a fairy tale, the result of his fantasy and imagination and that even the best predictions and prophecies of Billy Meier, which greatly contributed to convince him, were mere retrodictions.

My friend is now gradually learning to face reality and to pick up the pieces of his life gain, but it is very hard for him.

I sincerely hope for you, that the disappointment to come, would be less devastating for you.

All the best.

Promised to who ?

“http://futureofmankind.co.uk/meier/gaiaguys/ET.to.USA.1979.htm”

What and why it is written the way it is written and from what perspective and intended-goals have they written can be subjective;infact to arrive at a reasonable conclusion one needs first to undertand the scope of the mission. If one fails at that level, theres no use in discussing it now. Let us discusss the objective evidence and not the subjective.

“…nothing however says, that those aliens are already here or have ever been here, for that matter.”

Where did i say that the existence of Life outside earth is proved from theoritical models of experts ?

“Sciences are built on facts and evidence; models are either supported by facts and evidence and become scientific knowledge, or they are not and they are rejected or they remain…just models.”

You misunderstood the point. These models are built on facts from our sciences with some basic assumptions that same elements, natural laws(physical and biological) exist in other parts of the universe. Models/theories/hypotheses are not created out of thin air, they are based on facts that have been accumulated over centuries, which means they are the best explanations we have at present.

“So once again, Billy Meier needs to present hard, physical, scientific and conclusive evidence to back his extraordinary claims, if he doesn’t have that and you can not submit that to this forum for study by the suited scientists, then i frankly do not see the point of this discussion”

I am not suggesting that there is no evidence to look for us, infact there is plenty if one wants to look. The above models proposed by experts can be a helpful guide in checking out the claims of Meier. It seems you didnt want to understand the implications of the above proposed models. If it is so hard for you, to take into consideration the ground realities & the its influence on the Meier case; i dont expect everyone to have the same perspective. What one needs to take into account while investigating a case which is the first step decides everything further along.

Are you saying that Billy Meier or anyone else has to submit a “hard, physical, scientific and conclusive evidence” to prove their extraordinary claims. So the scientists can take evidence like metal samples, then test, retest, checked out by other labs, peer-reviewed,..so on. So far so good. Your whole demand lies on the basic assumption that, the powers that be, military & security intellgencies of powerful nations, politicians, military-industry complexes & corporations do nothing when an out of earth metal sample made of ET technology(or any evidence) from an ET race would be handed to bunch of people(non-elite) to test.

This assumption is baseless, immature and is dismissed by anyone & even experts in intelligence & elite stratum.(if you still persist, fine lets end this discussion).
Professor Allen Tough’s article, “Factors that might encourage Secrecy” is very revealing. And astrophysicist Ronald Bracewell quote that “Every authority which is in a position to keep this a secret will try to do so at all costs, no matter what the message itself is..a contact with another civilization is automatically ‘the most strictly guarded and best evaluated military state secret in the history of the earth’ “. There are many papers published by thinktanks, experts, professors,..on this interaction scenario. If you want to dismiss all this as loony, by saying just models, until they become facts through real interaction with ET’s, they are just models which has no basis in reality; fine.

A reasonable person can easily understand this critical issue and would ask to evaluate the available evidence & then decide. If you are willing to do that, i dont have a problem. Indeed i can show you evidence that points to the security agencies interest in Meier’ case. Please dont ask for ‘hard, physical, scientific and conclusive evidence’ in this issue. Lets be realistic.

“or your colleague, Michael Horn, is trying hard to make a career exactly on those ‘conclusive evidence’, ‘beyond a shadow of a doubt’, ‘indeniable evidence’, …”

He is not my colleauge. Dont make irrelevant, absurd statements please.

I dont see any contradiction here. Semjase offered sharp pictures of beamships and Billy has it. Billy’s photo albums are said to be one of the best UFO

collection ever. Contradiction only raises when one reads/interprets things which are not present.

“Speaking of the ‘Men in Black’, who play such a crucial ‘villain role’ in the adventures of Billy Meier, do you have any kind of evidence of their

existence, apart from the hollywood movie ‘Men in Black’…..What about the ‘Gizeh intelligence’?
And the ‘Syrians’ (sic), who allegedly destroyed the precious artifacts on Mars, the hard physical evidence of the ancient history of human life and

civilization on Mars, which Billy Meier promised to you?
Do you possess any evidence of their existence? ”

Forget about MIB, Syrians, Gizeh for a moment in the Meier case.
What kind of evidence one needs(Can you suggest one) to prove conclusively or undeniably the existence of the most secret organisations, to the whole world ?

Or can we at all prove their existence conclusively or undeniably to the whole world to see ?
Dont you think its silly to ask for undenible/conclusive evidence of their existence. The entire existence and execution of such organisations(CIA, KGB, NSA,

MI6,special forces teams, assasination groups, non-state armed groups, hired assasins…) is fundamentally builtup on secrecy. What value & point in having

such a secret organisation in the first place, if the case at hand can be simply proved to anyone anywhere just because someone somewhere asked for its

‘undeniable’ evidence.
It is secrecy that protects nations from foreign or internal elements, that gives advantage to military & national security experts against enemies, that can

also be misused by state or non-state actors,which is common knowledge(unless one locks himself in his/her room forever). This are the foundations on which

our day-to-day life depends, runs smoothly & in other cases severaly negatively affected & also what every good citizen is fighting for.

Now, coming to the alleged most secret/security/intelligence organisations ever created; for example MIB(if it exists at all) or others by whatever name one

calls them. Why demand things that we cant conclusively prove or disprove but can only infer?(Unless one imagines oneself to be in a Utopian society where a

perfect socio-politico-legal systems exist). Forget about unofficially acknowledged secret groups/services, we cant even prove conclusively/deniably what the

officially acknowledged secret services do. Take the examples of Operation Northwoods where US government planned false-flag attacks to go to war with cuba.

This is the world, where there is a conflict of political/economic/cultural interests, ambitions, hopes, anxieties, fears,…strategies are drawn out and

executed to benefit specific individuals/entities/organisations. Your way of reasoning paints an utopian society, where the security, military intelligences,

religious fanatics/heads, politicians, state & military-industrial complexes & corporate strategies all desire the truth and do anything to save the truth;

which is complete nonsense. If anyone is subscribing to that(i dont think you are), anymore discussion would be a waste of time. Our failure to take into

consideration the ground realities of the world & its relation to the case and narrow down for our convenience is pathetic.

Infact we will never be able to prove their existence and if we did as i said above, there’s no point in creating such a secret entity in the first place.

Your kind of reasoning bothers me. Evidence in scientific research & investigative fields like science, archaelogy, forensics,… where the the person/group

carries the investigation/experimentation, peer reviewing, repetition & reproducibility of the phenomenon is highly demanded & is most valuable; even though

evaluating evidence requires unbiased & neutral observation, we seldom see circumstances where there is no unbias towards the scientific evidence

(check:history & philosophy of science). But using the same standard of proof which we use in scientific research to everything else is unheard of & is

illogical even in legal domain.
Standard of proof varies from field to field & also in the same field depending upon the case to be proved.Examples include archaeology, pure mathematics,

theoritical physics, legal systems(2 types for civil and criminal cases),….list goes on. The kind of standard of proof you are asking can only be valid in

scientific domain but not in any other. Ground realities, facts, conspiracy to asssasinate person/character, kidnap attempts, steal/manipulate

evidence,….to check whether the above things are true or not is not the domain of routine scientific scrutiny and should be left with on-site

investigators(public & private officers).

I am not suggesting that we should swallow any bs that is thrown at us from those who have no evidence but only their statements to support their claims. At

the same time, no physical evidence even doesnot mean that he/she is a hoaxer. Almost all fall to cognitive dissonance & labels others as hoaxers/fruads with

no sufficient evidence.

Most sensible, intelligent thing to do is to form hypotheses as to what kind of evidence will be available if such secret organisations happen to have

involved themselves with Billy Meier case. What kind of traces could we find, if any exists at all. Our common sense tells us that such secret orgs wont left

behind any hard evidence that points directly to their existence. Even if they left some evidence, it only be indirect, circumstantial & allows us only to

speculate as to who might have carried out such an operation. This is where real world kicks in. Witnesses & their testimonies are the most important &

indispensable in real world(legal, social, cultural, historical…) & the least important in scientific research.

If you want to discuss the scientific evidence that is available, i am happy to share what i know. If you want to talk on indirect or circumstantial evidence

like witnesses, expert witness, things left over by assasins, evidence outside of Meier..& how is it related/connected to the list of evidences in Meier

case, fine. But here the standard of proof would be different to that of that is required in science domain. And this connecting multiple evidences into a

single coherent story is the most difficult thing to do and i have never heard any logical counter-arguments that explains everything in the case.

Let me confirm that we’re not talking about a couple of misshapen rocks here – this is one proper sunken city with clearly defined buildings and pyramids. Are your eyeballs starting to roll? Apologies in anticipation!

As usual with most conspiracy theories, there is no way I can verify this, but all the same, here’s a version of the same conspiracy seen from a different angle.

Dr Sandra Noble heads an august organization known as FAMSI (The Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies). The central remit of FAMSI (not that they’ll own up to it) is to narrow down within the Mesoamerican landscape the whereabouts of this lost land known as Aztlan.

Even today in Mexico there is much consternation and political discourse over the whereabouts of this fabled land. There is even an entire political movement there devoted to vouchsafing in law the location of Aztlan originating beyond the northern border of Mexico in southern California.

The idea is; that if this political movement could find evidence for this original location of Aztlan further into southern California, it would rid Mexicans of any need for passport control here.

One can easily see how important this issue might become for this impoverished part of the world, so let us give three cheers for the work of FAMSI. I’m sure their research will very soon prove to be of invaluable assistance to their claim.

As I have already stated in a previous message, the definition of the word Aztec is: the people of Aztlan.

So from this starting point, one might imagine that although FAMSI is a US organisation headed by an American (Dr Noble), the city FAMSI would choose as a base in the USA would obviously be one within easy reach of Mexico – say Los Angeles or maybe San Antonio. That way it would only be a short trip across the border for them to continue on with their research for evidence for Aztlan.

But no, The Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies is actually located in Miami Florida, overlooking the Little Bahama Bank.

You just couldn’t make it up!

Regards Judy

http://www.famsi.org/listinfo.html