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	<title>Comments on: Modern Bloodletting</title>
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	<description>Your Daily Fix of Neuroscience, Skepticism, and Critical Thinking</description>
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		<title>By: T.</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/modern-bloodletting/comment-page-1/#comment-23584</link>
		<dc:creator>T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2099#comment-23584</guid>
		<description>Someone I&#039;m acquainted with is being treated for a condition known as polycythemia vera (PV), a rare blood disorder.  
One of the other commenters has touched on this issue above. 

The state of the art treatment apparently consists in part of blood-letting, or more particularly, drawing off a pint or so of blood at regular intervals.  Awareness of this prompted me to think about whether there may be or may have been some populations over history in which PV was prevalent, and thus where bloodletting would have made a noticeable clinical difference.  My sense is that this is not the case, though, because onset of PV according to available literature most common beyond the age of 40, and the vast majority of our ancestors would not have made it to that ripe age.  Nevertheless, here is an instance where bloodletting is literally a life saver in the modern world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone I&#8217;m acquainted with is being treated for a condition known as polycythemia vera (PV), a rare blood disorder.<br />
One of the other commenters has touched on this issue above. </p>
<p>The state of the art treatment apparently consists in part of blood-letting, or more particularly, drawing off a pint or so of blood at regular intervals.  Awareness of this prompted me to think about whether there may be or may have been some populations over history in which PV was prevalent, and thus where bloodletting would have made a noticeable clinical difference.  My sense is that this is not the case, though, because onset of PV according to available literature most common beyond the age of 40, and the vast majority of our ancestors would not have made it to that ripe age.  Nevertheless, here is an instance where bloodletting is literally a life saver in the modern world.</p>
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		<title>By: mikerattlesnake</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/modern-bloodletting/comment-page-1/#comment-23493</link>
		<dc:creator>mikerattlesnake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2099#comment-23493</guid>
		<description>@Johnc

from your posts it sounds like you buy into accupuncture, but I could be reading wrong. Anyhow, you said this:

&quot;You’re seeing a distinction where there is overlap. Modern exercises for distributing Qi evenly around the body also, amazingly, help improve circulation. Who’d a thunk it eh?&quot;

So which of the following is the actual health claim that accupuncture makes?

1) The body contains a magical energy which is designed to support, heal, and create life that can be manipulated through the application of needles to specific points on the body to address specific health claims (though this mysterious all-powerful energy seems to have an effect just barely better than placebo at best and works best on self-limiting and subjective ailments, strange for such a mysterious and powerful force).

or....

2) Irritating tissue with needles might cause increased blood flow, causing health benefits that are nonspecific or not particularly evident.


you can&#039;t have it both ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Johnc</p>
<p>from your posts it sounds like you buy into accupuncture, but I could be reading wrong. Anyhow, you said this:</p>
<p>&#8220;You’re seeing a distinction where there is overlap. Modern exercises for distributing Qi evenly around the body also, amazingly, help improve circulation. Who’d a thunk it eh?&#8221;</p>
<p>So which of the following is the actual health claim that accupuncture makes?</p>
<p>1) The body contains a magical energy which is designed to support, heal, and create life that can be manipulated through the application of needles to specific points on the body to address specific health claims (though this mysterious all-powerful energy seems to have an effect just barely better than placebo at best and works best on self-limiting and subjective ailments, strange for such a mysterious and powerful force).</p>
<p>or&#8230;.</p>
<p>2) Irritating tissue with needles might cause increased blood flow, causing health benefits that are nonspecific or not particularly evident.</p>
<p>you can&#8217;t have it both ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/modern-bloodletting/comment-page-1/#comment-23465</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2099#comment-23465</guid>
		<description>I repeat here what I posted at SBM (and Harriet somewhat echoed it).  There were, originally, hundreds of acupuncture points so any mark on a person (viz., the Iceman) is likely to be within a margin of error from such a point.  Therefore, I think the data is too thin to support a direct connection between his tattoos and acupuncture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I repeat here what I posted at SBM (and Harriet somewhat echoed it).  There were, originally, hundreds of acupuncture points so any mark on a person (viz., the Iceman) is likely to be within a margin of error from such a point.  Therefore, I think the data is too thin to support a direct connection between his tattoos and acupuncture.</p>
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		<title>By: scribe999</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/modern-bloodletting/comment-page-1/#comment-23462</link>
		<dc:creator>scribe999</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 21:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2099#comment-23462</guid>
		<description>Having had the uncomfortable experience as a child of being held down with a strings tied tight around my finger tips while my uncle pricked them with a needle sterilized by a match flame...I&#039;m generally against it.

Keep in mind, this was supposed to relieve a headache. Kinda worked...my fingers were throbbing somewhat, so it de-emphasized the pain that was continuing to exist in my head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having had the uncomfortable experience as a child of being held down with a strings tied tight around my finger tips while my uncle pricked them with a needle sterilized by a match flame&#8230;I&#8217;m generally against it.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, this was supposed to relieve a headache. Kinda worked&#8230;my fingers were throbbing somewhat, so it de-emphasized the pain that was continuing to exist in my head.</p>
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		<title>By: elmer mccurdy</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/modern-bloodletting/comment-page-1/#comment-23443</link>
		<dc:creator>elmer mccurdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 06:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2099#comment-23443</guid>
		<description>...and the second one just means &quot;substance.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and the second one just means &#8220;substance.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: elmer mccurdy</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/modern-bloodletting/comment-page-1/#comment-23442</link>
		<dc:creator>elmer mccurdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 06:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>OK, I just found this in an online Chinese dictionary: 
氣質  	  
blood, gaseity, habitude, mettle, proclivity, strain, temperament

As you can see , the first character is qi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I just found this in an online Chinese dictionary:<br />
氣質<br />
blood, gaseity, habitude, mettle, proclivity, strain, temperament</p>
<p>As you can see , the first character is qi.</p>
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		<title>By: elmer mccurdy</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/modern-bloodletting/comment-page-1/#comment-23437</link>
		<dc:creator>elmer mccurdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 04:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The character for energy (actually it literally means air, gas or steam) is pronounced qi in Mandarin. Chi is the same word using a different romanization system. The character for blood can be pronounced either xie or xue (in different tones).

Qi (in its traditional, not simplified, form) combines the radicals (basic parts) for air and rice, whereas xie is a very common radical in and of itself. I don&#039;t know the history of the characters, but no, the relationship between the two certainly isn&#039;t obvious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The character for energy (actually it literally means air, gas or steam) is pronounced qi in Mandarin. Chi is the same word using a different romanization system. The character for blood can be pronounced either xie or xue (in different tones).</p>
<p>Qi (in its traditional, not simplified, form) combines the radicals (basic parts) for air and rice, whereas xie is a very common radical in and of itself. I don&#8217;t know the history of the characters, but no, the relationship between the two certainly isn&#8217;t obvious.</p>
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		<title>By: BillyJoe7</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/modern-bloodletting/comment-page-1/#comment-23398</link>
		<dc:creator>BillyJoe7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2099#comment-23398</guid>
		<description>Rikki-Tikki-Tavi,

&quot;Although I do remember reading about a rather rare ailment which is relieved by giving blood&quot;

I think you mean blood-letting.
Yes, I can think of two: Haemochromatosis and Polycythaemia.

Three of my wife&#039;s four sibs - two are twins - have haemachromatosis and donate blood regularly to keep their iron levels within the normal range.

In polycythaemia, the problem is too many red blood cells which thicken the blood and can lead to strokes unless blood is removed periodically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rikki-Tikki-Tavi,</p>
<p>&#8220;Although I do remember reading about a rather rare ailment which is relieved by giving blood&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you mean blood-letting.<br />
Yes, I can think of two: Haemochromatosis and Polycythaemia.</p>
<p>Three of my wife&#8217;s four sibs &#8211; two are twins &#8211; have haemachromatosis and donate blood regularly to keep their iron levels within the normal range.</p>
<p>In polycythaemia, the problem is too many red blood cells which thicken the blood and can lead to strokes unless blood is removed periodically.</p>
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		<title>By: David H</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/modern-bloodletting/comment-page-1/#comment-23392</link>
		<dc:creator>David H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2099#comment-23392</guid>
		<description>Donna B,
             Haemochromatosis id the disease you are thinking about that is treated through regular blood &quot;removal&quot; (in Australia it is often through blood donation).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_overload

this is just for background info not science based research.

I am more than a little worried that people who practise and represent bloodletting as a legimate medical proceedure are probably not going to be of the opinion that disease can be spread through blood and as such may not stricting adhere to good sterilization proceedures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donna B,<br />
             Haemochromatosis id the disease you are thinking about that is treated through regular blood &#8220;removal&#8221; (in Australia it is often through blood donation).</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_overload" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_overload</a></p>
<p>this is just for background info not science based research.</p>
<p>I am more than a little worried that people who practise and represent bloodletting as a legimate medical proceedure are probably not going to be of the opinion that disease can be spread through blood and as such may not stricting adhere to good sterilization proceedures.</p>
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		<title>By: Rikki-Tikki-Tavi</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/modern-bloodletting/comment-page-1/#comment-23387</link>
		<dc:creator>Rikki-Tikki-Tavi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 07:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2099#comment-23387</guid>
		<description>Steve,

I finally found a dictionary, that had the word shiraku in it. The kanji are 刺絡 (thorn/to pierce+entwine). With that I did find a few thousand google results.
Shiraku does in fact mean blood letting, and it is in fact linked to acupuncture, as this BS page is eager to point out. You can google translate it to get an idea.

http://www.kotyuten.com/shirakutoha/index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>I finally found a dictionary, that had the word shiraku in it. The kanji are 刺絡 (thorn/to pierce+entwine). With that I did find a few thousand google results.<br />
Shiraku does in fact mean blood letting, and it is in fact linked to acupuncture, as this BS page is eager to point out. You can google translate it to get an idea.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kotyuten.com/shirakutoha/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.kotyuten.com/shirakutoha/index.html</a></p>
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