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	<title>Comments on: Medical Neglect</title>
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	<description>Your Daily Fix of Neuroscience, Skepticism, and Critical Thinking</description>
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		<title>By: stompsfrogs</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/medical-neglect/comment-page-1/#comment-12036</link>
		<dc:creator>stompsfrogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 17:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=537#comment-12036</guid>
		<description>&quot;Seems to me that the newest form of natural selection in humans is blatant stupidity.&quot;

Yeah, you have to be outrageously stupid to get selected against in our warm and fuzzily comfortable society. You&#039;re safer now than you were in your mother&#039;s womb.

And on the topic of Native American reservations: I&#039;m pretty sure the federal gov&#039;t has nothing to do with tribal lands. Obviously they don&#039;t pay any taxes, but I don&#039;t think the feds will step in to protect the citizens of the reservation. Likewise, the tribe can shield their citizens from extradition to U.S. court. I heard a story on NPR once where the poor tribes (a.k.a. &quot;one of those thousands of tribes that don&#039;t own a casino&quot;) had a real problem with law enforcement because they didn&#039;t have enough resources to protect the citizens of the reservation and all these hillbillies from Minnesota or somewhere like that were coming onto their lands and raping their women. And the Minnesota police where uncooperative and the feds wouldn&#039;t help. Pretty much everybody seemed to think it was somebody else&#039;s problem.

But that&#039;s not really relevant in this case since these people aren&#039;t Native American at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Seems to me that the newest form of natural selection in humans is blatant stupidity.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, you have to be outrageously stupid to get selected against in our warm and fuzzily comfortable society. You&#8217;re safer now than you were in your mother&#8217;s womb.</p>
<p>And on the topic of Native American reservations: I&#8217;m pretty sure the federal gov&#8217;t has nothing to do with tribal lands. Obviously they don&#8217;t pay any taxes, but I don&#8217;t think the feds will step in to protect the citizens of the reservation. Likewise, the tribe can shield their citizens from extradition to U.S. court. I heard a story on NPR once where the poor tribes (a.k.a. &#8220;one of those thousands of tribes that don&#8217;t own a casino&#8221;) had a real problem with law enforcement because they didn&#8217;t have enough resources to protect the citizens of the reservation and all these hillbillies from Minnesota or somewhere like that were coming onto their lands and raping their women. And the Minnesota police where uncooperative and the feds wouldn&#8217;t help. Pretty much everybody seemed to think it was somebody else&#8217;s problem.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s not really relevant in this case since these people aren&#8217;t Native American at all.</p>
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		<title>By: tomcroll</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/medical-neglect/comment-page-1/#comment-12034</link>
		<dc:creator>tomcroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 08:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=537#comment-12034</guid>
		<description>pendens proditor said &quot;Could (or does) the Brazilian government punish members of indigenous rainforest tribes for breaking Brazilian law? For some of the more secluded tribes, it would be like aliens landing on Earth next week and punishing human beings for breaking the laws of the intergalactic society whose jurisdiction our solar system just happened to fall within.&quot;

You assume that these people have the option of better treatment. If there are no better alternatives readily available, then how could they be forced to take them?

In this case, there are doctors advising and offering the best treatment and they are wilfully neglecting this advice to the detriment of their child.

If you take it to abstraction, then for any crime, someone would have to make a complaint for the law to become involved. If they did, they would be tried.

I think there&#039;s a fairly clear distinction between the two cases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pendens proditor said &#8220;Could (or does) the Brazilian government punish members of indigenous rainforest tribes for breaking Brazilian law? For some of the more secluded tribes, it would be like aliens landing on Earth next week and punishing human beings for breaking the laws of the intergalactic society whose jurisdiction our solar system just happened to fall within.&#8221;</p>
<p>You assume that these people have the option of better treatment. If there are no better alternatives readily available, then how could they be forced to take them?</p>
<p>In this case, there are doctors advising and offering the best treatment and they are wilfully neglecting this advice to the detriment of their child.</p>
<p>If you take it to abstraction, then for any crime, someone would have to make a complaint for the law to become involved. If they did, they would be tried.</p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s a fairly clear distinction between the two cases.</p>
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		<title>By: DrEvil</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/medical-neglect/comment-page-1/#comment-12033</link>
		<dc:creator>DrEvil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 05:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=537#comment-12033</guid>
		<description>Seems to me that the newest form of natural selection in humans is blatant stupidity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that the newest form of natural selection in humans is blatant stupidity.</p>
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		<title>By: weoifnk</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/medical-neglect/comment-page-1/#comment-12014</link>
		<dc:creator>weoifnk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 17:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=537#comment-12014</guid>
		<description>Looks like the mom and her son will not respect the law (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090520/boy_chemo_090520/20090520?hub=TopStories). There is a nation-wide warrant for their arrest. Sometimes you just have to shake your head and wonder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like the mom and her son will not respect the law (<a href="http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090520/boy_chemo_090520/20090520?hub=TopStories" rel="nofollow">http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090520/boy_chemo_090520/20090520?hub=TopStories</a>). There is a nation-wide warrant for their arrest. Sometimes you just have to shake your head and wonder.</p>
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		<title>By: badrescher</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/medical-neglect/comment-page-1/#comment-12008</link>
		<dc:creator>badrescher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 07:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=537#comment-12008</guid>
		<description>Let us not forget some of the other facts that led to the judge&#039;s decision:

- Daniel is considered an elder, but does not know what the word &quot;elder&quot; means.
- The ONLY Nemenhah principle Daniel seemed to understand was &quot;do no harm&quot;, although he is considered &quot;a medicine man&quot;.
- Daniel is 13 yo, in the 5th grade, but cannot read. It is highly unlikely that he researched the CAM in his deposition.

This is one of the most blatant cases of pure ignorance I&#039;ve ever seen. I am sure these people have good intentions, but they are betting their child&#039;s life on BS. 

My understanding of what happened today is that he did have another X-ray yesterday. The tumor is larger and the cancer has spread. The doctor who administered the X-ray recommended an appointment be made immediately, but the mother said &quot;no&quot; and left with the child.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let us not forget some of the other facts that led to the judge&#8217;s decision:</p>
<p>- Daniel is considered an elder, but does not know what the word &#8220;elder&#8221; means.<br />
- The ONLY Nemenhah principle Daniel seemed to understand was &#8220;do no harm&#8221;, although he is considered &#8220;a medicine man&#8221;.<br />
- Daniel is 13 yo, in the 5th grade, but cannot read. It is highly unlikely that he researched the CAM in his deposition.</p>
<p>This is one of the most blatant cases of pure ignorance I&#8217;ve ever seen. I am sure these people have good intentions, but they are betting their child&#8217;s life on BS. </p>
<p>My understanding of what happened today is that he did have another X-ray yesterday. The tumor is larger and the cancer has spread. The doctor who administered the X-ray recommended an appointment be made immediately, but the mother said &#8220;no&#8221; and left with the child.</p>
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		<title>By: HHC</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/medical-neglect/comment-page-1/#comment-12005</link>
		<dc:creator>HHC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 04:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=537#comment-12005</guid>
		<description>This Minnesota farm family will learn soon enough you can&#039;t run and hide from the court.  There is a long arm to the law.  The youth will become a ward of the state.  He&#039;ll undergo psychiatric evaluation.  And the rest will be legal history.  Contempt of court can never be an answer to medical problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This Minnesota farm family will learn soon enough you can&#8217;t run and hide from the court.  There is a long arm to the law.  The youth will become a ward of the state.  He&#8217;ll undergo psychiatric evaluation.  And the rest will be legal history.  Contempt of court can never be an answer to medical problems.</p>
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		<title>By: TsuDhoNimh</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/medical-neglect/comment-page-1/#comment-11998</link>
		<dc:creator>TsuDhoNimh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 02:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=537#comment-11998</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;Daniel’s family are members of the Nemenhah religion, a Native American religious tradition&lt;/I&gt;

The Nemenhah are NOT following any known Native American religious tradition! It&#039;s a 100% plastic New-Age woo developed by a white guy named Phillip Landis (a.k.a. &quot;Cloudpiler&quot;, or as he&#039;s known in Native American Circles, &quot;Piles Bullshit Deeply&quot;).

He&#039;s using a federal law that&#039;s designed to protect Native AMerican rituals as a cloak for his supplement businerss, selling membership in his &quot;band&quot; to members of his MLM.

They were using the name of a known Nez Perce band until the Nez Perce did the &quot;summoning of the land sharks&quot; ritual and made him stop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Daniel’s family are members of the Nemenhah religion, a Native American religious tradition</i></p>
<p>The Nemenhah are NOT following any known Native American religious tradition! It&#8217;s a 100% plastic New-Age woo developed by a white guy named Phillip Landis (a.k.a. &#8220;Cloudpiler&#8221;, or as he&#8217;s known in Native American Circles, &#8220;Piles Bullshit Deeply&#8221;).</p>
<p>He&#8217;s using a federal law that&#8217;s designed to protect Native AMerican rituals as a cloak for his supplement businerss, selling membership in his &#8220;band&#8221; to members of his MLM.</p>
<p>They were using the name of a known Nez Perce band until the Nez Perce did the &#8220;summoning of the land sharks&#8221; ritual and made him stop.</p>
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		<title>By: Calli Arcale</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/medical-neglect/comment-page-1/#comment-11993</link>
		<dc:creator>Calli Arcale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 19:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=537#comment-11993</guid>
		<description>I also posted this as a reply to Orac&#039;s excellent coverage of the story.  There is a new development in the case.  The Hauser&#039;s were due to appear in court today, I believe pertaining to the x-ray the boy was supposed to get.  Not only did he not get the x-ray, but he and his mother did not show up in court.  His father finally spoke out, saying that he hasn&#039;t seen either of them since yesterday, when his wife told him that she was leaving ,and that was all he needed to know.  (Plausible deniability?  Or did she think he&#039;d spill the beans?  Depends; having heard nothing from the father up until now, it&#039;s impossible to judge his investment in his son&#039;s treatment.)

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.startribune.com/local/45423747.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Minnesota boy resisting chemo misses court hearing&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also posted this as a reply to Orac&#8217;s excellent coverage of the story.  There is a new development in the case.  The Hauser&#8217;s were due to appear in court today, I believe pertaining to the x-ray the boy was supposed to get.  Not only did he not get the x-ray, but he and his mother did not show up in court.  His father finally spoke out, saying that he hasn&#8217;t seen either of them since yesterday, when his wife told him that she was leaving ,and that was all he needed to know.  (Plausible deniability?  Or did she think he&#8217;d spill the beans?  Depends; having heard nothing from the father up until now, it&#8217;s impossible to judge his investment in his son&#8217;s treatment.)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.startribune.com/local/45423747.html" rel="nofollow">Minnesota boy resisting chemo misses court hearing</a></p>
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		<title>By: HHC</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/medical-neglect/comment-page-1/#comment-11980</link>
		<dc:creator>HHC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 02:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=537#comment-11980</guid>
		<description>I had a mentor, an licensed an accredited social worker who taught me about a real case in Iowa of medical neglect.  A doctor and his wife allowed a female child to die of diabetes because of their faith.  He tried his best to talk medical sense into the family.  It didn&#039;t work.  No legal charges were made against the family. When I asked why, he stated that a family that watches a child die due to their decisions was punishment enough.  Scarey stuff! 
:-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a mentor, an licensed an accredited social worker who taught me about a real case in Iowa of medical neglect.  A doctor and his wife allowed a female child to die of diabetes because of their faith.  He tried his best to talk medical sense into the family.  It didn&#8217;t work.  No legal charges were made against the family. When I asked why, he stated that a family that watches a child die due to their decisions was punishment enough.  Scarey stuff!<br />
 <img src='http://theness.com/neurologicablog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Orac</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/medical-neglect/comment-page-1/#comment-11977</link>
		<dc:creator>Orac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 20:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=537#comment-11977</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Orac - thanks for the clarification. So his chances of surviving are even better with treatment than I cited.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I forgot to mention that that is true, unless his tumor has progressed significantly, to the point where a bone marrow transplant might be needed to salvage his life. If that is the case, his odds can drop more than I mentioned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Orac &#8211; thanks for the clarification. So his chances of surviving are even better with treatment than I cited.</p></blockquote>
<p>I forgot to mention that that is true, unless his tumor has progressed significantly, to the point where a bone marrow transplant might be needed to salvage his life. If that is the case, his odds can drop more than I mentioned.</p>
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