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	<title>Comments on: Magnetic Healing Through the Ages</title>
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	<description>Your Daily Fix of Neuroscience, Skepticism, and Critical Thinking</description>
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		<title>By: Calli Arcale</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/magnetic-healing-through-the-ages/comment-page-1/#comment-22445</link>
		<dc:creator>Calli Arcale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2048#comment-22445</guid>
		<description>My first exposure to the work of Mesmer came through my fascination with the work of Edgar Allen Poe.  The story &quot;Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar&quot; is quite arresting, though clearly preposterous.  Well, preposterous in modern hindsight.  Though it&#039;s finctional, Poe did not indicate that when he first published it in 1845, and many readers believed it to be true.  Several &quot;magnetic healers&quot; even wrote to claim they had achieved similar feats.  (In the story, a dying man is mesmerized at the point of death to determine what will happen.  Mesmerism keeps the man alive, suspended, for several months.  Upon awakening, the man screams, &quot;Dead! Dead!&quot; and collapses into a &quot;detestable putrescence&quot;.  It&#039;s definitely one of the more vivid of Poe&#039;s stories.)  Eventually, he did confess to the hoax, and ultimately the widespread acceptance of it is evidence not merely of the gullibility of readers but of the extraordinary vividness of his prose.

The story could not have been successful (either as fiction or hoax) had the general public not been highly intrigued with the idea of &quot;animal magnetism&quot;, nor widely convinced of its power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first exposure to the work of Mesmer came through my fascination with the work of Edgar Allen Poe.  The story &#8220;Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar&#8221; is quite arresting, though clearly preposterous.  Well, preposterous in modern hindsight.  Though it&#8217;s finctional, Poe did not indicate that when he first published it in 1845, and many readers believed it to be true.  Several &#8220;magnetic healers&#8221; even wrote to claim they had achieved similar feats.  (In the story, a dying man is mesmerized at the point of death to determine what will happen.  Mesmerism keeps the man alive, suspended, for several months.  Upon awakening, the man screams, &#8220;Dead! Dead!&#8221; and collapses into a &#8220;detestable putrescence&#8221;.  It&#8217;s definitely one of the more vivid of Poe&#8217;s stories.)  Eventually, he did confess to the hoax, and ultimately the widespread acceptance of it is evidence not merely of the gullibility of readers but of the extraordinary vividness of his prose.</p>
<p>The story could not have been successful (either as fiction or hoax) had the general public not been highly intrigued with the idea of &#8220;animal magnetism&#8221;, nor widely convinced of its power.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/magnetic-healing-through-the-ages/comment-page-1/#comment-22414</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 17:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2048#comment-22414</guid>
		<description>If any of you watch the show Lost, I think it&#039;s a good example of the mainstream promotion of healing through magnetism.  

The Island the characters are trapped has large deposits of electromagnetism, which has miraculously cured many people from ailments such as cancer, spinal injury, gunshot wounds, and many other injuries.  

I&#039;m aware it&#039;s a work of fiction, and I don&#039;t know if the role it plays in the show is for entertainment purposes exclusively or to server as a subtle promotion.

For those interested.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Electromagnetism</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If any of you watch the show Lost, I think it&#8217;s a good example of the mainstream promotion of healing through magnetism.  </p>
<p>The Island the characters are trapped has large deposits of electromagnetism, which has miraculously cured many people from ailments such as cancer, spinal injury, gunshot wounds, and many other injuries.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m aware it&#8217;s a work of fiction, and I don&#8217;t know if the role it plays in the show is for entertainment purposes exclusively or to server as a subtle promotion.</p>
<p>For those interested.</p>
<p><a href="http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Electromagnetism" rel="nofollow">http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Electromagnetism</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steven Novella</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/magnetic-healing-through-the-ages/comment-page-1/#comment-22397</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Novella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2048#comment-22397</guid>
		<description>David,

I disagree. Mesmer was not taking medical science in a useful direction. Essentially he was treating psychosomatic illnesses with a placebo effect, and constructed an elaborate theory around that as an explanation. That theory was fanciful and not evidence-based or rigorous, and was rightly rejected. 

The fact that there was a kernel of utility in the hypnosis component of his interventions is a minor consideration, in my opinion, and does not rescue him from being a crank. It&#039;s like saying blood letting was not a bad idea because it is useful for polycythemia. 

This is a core problem in medical science - separating specific effects that reflect underlying biology from non-specific therapeutic effects that do not. Mesmer was just another crank who confused non-specific for specific effects, which provided confirmation bias for his fanciful theories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>I disagree. Mesmer was not taking medical science in a useful direction. Essentially he was treating psychosomatic illnesses with a placebo effect, and constructed an elaborate theory around that as an explanation. That theory was fanciful and not evidence-based or rigorous, and was rightly rejected. </p>
<p>The fact that there was a kernel of utility in the hypnosis component of his interventions is a minor consideration, in my opinion, and does not rescue him from being a crank. It&#8217;s like saying blood letting was not a bad idea because it is useful for polycythemia. </p>
<p>This is a core problem in medical science &#8211; separating specific effects that reflect underlying biology from non-specific therapeutic effects that do not. Mesmer was just another crank who confused non-specific for specific effects, which provided confirmation bias for his fanciful theories.</p>
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		<title>By: BillyJoe7</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/magnetic-healing-through-the-ages/comment-page-1/#comment-22396</link>
		<dc:creator>BillyJoe7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2048#comment-22396</guid>
		<description>Thanks Pinky.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/1/93

Okay, no firm conclusions can be drawn from this study.

Firstly, as the small numbers suggest, this was a pilot study.
Secondly it was not double-blinded.
Thirdly, it used existing study groups, which explains why there were unequal numbers in the three groups and confiming my suspicion that the there was not random allocation.

However the effect was rather large indicating that a controlled clinical trial would be worthwhile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Pinky.</p>
<p><a href="http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/1/93" rel="nofollow">http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/1/93</a></p>
<p>Okay, no firm conclusions can be drawn from this study.</p>
<p>Firstly, as the small numbers suggest, this was a pilot study.<br />
Secondly it was not double-blinded.<br />
Thirdly, it used existing study groups, which explains why there were unequal numbers in the three groups and confiming my suspicion that the there was not random allocation.</p>
<p>However the effect was rather large indicating that a controlled clinical trial would be worthwhile.</p>
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		<title>By: David M. Brooks</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/magnetic-healing-through-the-ages/comment-page-1/#comment-22395</link>
		<dc:creator>David M. Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 05:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2048#comment-22395</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always felt that Mesmer was given an unjustly hard time by old Ben and the skeptics of the day. For the time, he developed his ideas in a reasonably scientific way, he started with actual magnets and discarded them, and did experiments to develop his actually successful treatments. 

Mesmer was not a charlatan and the rejection of his techniques by conventional medicine (but not his theory) was an error, especially given the poverty of effective treatments in medicines of the day, especially before the discovery of effective chemical anesthetics. 

To say that Mesmer was &quot;only&quot; using hypnosis is to ignore the fact that hypnosis is only a new name given by Braid for Mesmerism without Mesmer&#039;s &quot;animal magnetism&quot; theory. But Braid&#039;s own name for hypnosis was based on an also incorrect idea that Mesmerism/hypnosis  was a form a sleep, an error that Braid eventually recognized. 

I think that the rejection of Mesmer and Mesmerism was a failure, not a triumph, of skepticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always felt that Mesmer was given an unjustly hard time by old Ben and the skeptics of the day. For the time, he developed his ideas in a reasonably scientific way, he started with actual magnets and discarded them, and did experiments to develop his actually successful treatments. </p>
<p>Mesmer was not a charlatan and the rejection of his techniques by conventional medicine (but not his theory) was an error, especially given the poverty of effective treatments in medicines of the day, especially before the discovery of effective chemical anesthetics. </p>
<p>To say that Mesmer was &#8220;only&#8221; using hypnosis is to ignore the fact that hypnosis is only a new name given by Braid for Mesmerism without Mesmer&#8217;s &#8220;animal magnetism&#8221; theory. But Braid&#8217;s own name for hypnosis was based on an also incorrect idea that Mesmerism/hypnosis  was a form a sleep, an error that Braid eventually recognized. </p>
<p>I think that the rejection of Mesmer and Mesmerism was a failure, not a triumph, of skepticism.</p>
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		<title>By: Pinky</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/magnetic-healing-through-the-ages/comment-page-1/#comment-22393</link>
		<dc:creator>Pinky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 04:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2048#comment-22393</guid>
		<description>@BillyJoe7: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/1/93</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@BillyJoe7: <a href="http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/1/93" rel="nofollow">http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/1/93</a></p>
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		<title>By: mewol</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/magnetic-healing-through-the-ages/comment-page-1/#comment-22385</link>
		<dc:creator>mewol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 00:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>BillyJoe7,

Try here for the full version: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/1/93

According to the authors, the change in group size was due to losing access to the facility&#039;s MRI system.

Of more concern to me is that while the subjects were sorta-kinda blinded, the rater wasn&#039;t blinded at all.

It&#039;s an interesting idea, at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BillyJoe7,</p>
<p>Try here for the full version: <a href="http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/1/93" rel="nofollow">http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/1/93</a></p>
<p>According to the authors, the change in group size was due to losing access to the facility&#8217;s MRI system.</p>
<p>Of more concern to me is that while the subjects were sorta-kinda blinded, the rater wasn&#8217;t blinded at all.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an interesting idea, at least.</p>
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		<title>By: BillyJoe7</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/magnetic-healing-through-the-ages/comment-page-1/#comment-22383</link>
		<dc:creator>BillyJoe7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 21:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2048#comment-22383</guid>
		<description>Poatato,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14702256

This study is immediately suspicious. They have 45 subjects and 3 test groups. Instead of putting 15 in each group, they distribute them in groups of 30, 15, and 10. This suggests that the patients were not randomly allocated to each group. Otherwise I can&#039;t see why tehy made the group sizes different.

(Unfortunately, although there is a tag &quot;free article&quot; I can&#039;t seem to access the article, only the abstract)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poatato,</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14702256" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14702256</a></p>
<p>This study is immediately suspicious. They have 45 subjects and 3 test groups. Instead of putting 15 in each group, they distribute them in groups of 30, 15, and 10. This suggests that the patients were not randomly allocated to each group. Otherwise I can&#8217;t see why tehy made the group sizes different.</p>
<p>(Unfortunately, although there is a tag &#8220;free article&#8221; I can&#8217;t seem to access the article, only the abstract)</p>
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		<title>By: Potato</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/magnetic-healing-through-the-ages/comment-page-1/#comment-22382</link>
		<dc:creator>Potato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 21:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2048#comment-22382</guid>
		<description>ccbowers, see:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14702256</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ccbowers, see:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14702256" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14702256</a></p>
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		<title>By: SARA</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/magnetic-healing-through-the-ages/comment-page-1/#comment-22381</link>
		<dc:creator>SARA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2048#comment-22381</guid>
		<description>It is amazing how one fact can be twisted out of all proportion by minds that want to see something.  
Noncritical Thinking 101.    
The body&#039;s natural ability to heal itself of minor infections and wounds has been misinterpreted by many to be due to any number of things, including magnets. What you see depends on what you are looking for.  So if want to know why you got better and by chance were carrying around a magnet - voila you have discovered the magic cure.  
Now you tell others, some portion of them feel better while carrying the magic magnet proving the theory.  And the many who didn&#039;t get better are the anomaly.  The believers tell two friends and so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is amazing how one fact can be twisted out of all proportion by minds that want to see something.<br />
Noncritical Thinking 101.<br />
The body&#8217;s natural ability to heal itself of minor infections and wounds has been misinterpreted by many to be due to any number of things, including magnets. What you see depends on what you are looking for.  So if want to know why you got better and by chance were carrying around a magnet &#8211; voila you have discovered the magic cure.<br />
Now you tell others, some portion of them feel better while carrying the magic magnet proving the theory.  And the many who didn&#8217;t get better are the anomaly.  The believers tell two friends and so.</p>
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