and forgot to say that was when I had chicken pox, one of the nasty complications of chicken pox is a subsequent bacterial infection… Which was also the year I had a tonsillectomy that bled, and landed me back in the hospital.

Oh, and my kids all got chicken pox in 1994, the year before the vaccine came out. Even my daughter who was six months old and only breast fed (umm… well, I have stubborn kids who were slow to wean and eat solid food, though only the middle kid drove me nuts with potty training). Not a good time, especially with older son’s speech therapy appointments, plus some therapy with younger son (resolved), and a baby who could not sleep at night due to being miserable. Though it wasn’t as bad as one family in older son’s school, he ended up in the hospital with flesh eating bacterial infection. Yikes!

Yeah, I’m old (51 in one month). I remember getting sick. I remember folks who became disabled from the diseases. My own kids have had the now vaccine preventable diseases (oh, one of oldest son’s trips to the hospital was due to what may have been a rotavirus infection, he had a seizure due to dehydration — fun times — sarcasm).

By the way, the ritzy neighborhood near the Children’s Hospital wants to restrict its expansion (they are buying an old post WWII condo complex on the highway side, each condo owner is getting more than market price, not the ritzy neighborhood side). I wrote the city planners and told them that I support the hospital expansion. I happen to live just on the other side of the highway, they are expanding towards my cheaper neighborhood, not the ritzy one. That hospital has been a great resource, and besides: some of my neighbors work there!

Other books of interest on the subject:
616.8 SACKS 1995 An anthropologist on Mars : 7 paradoxical tales / Oliver Sacks.
616.85882 G885U 2007 Unstrange minds : remapping the world of autism /
618.928588 COL Not even wrong : adventures in autism / Paul Collins

Good luck with your decision. Some of us find our own communities. Though I should mention that before having kids I did subscribe to the Skeptical Inquirer, so I was not one to walk lock-step with the crowd. Also, the Disabilities and ADD forums on Compuserve fifteen years ago was full of people who looked at the science (what we could find).

I am also old enough to remember measles, chicken pox, mumps and rubella. I had mumps and was miserable. I also remember having my fingernails cut very short to prevent scratching so I would not get a bacterial infection, oh and making cotton ball chicks to keep me busy. Our next door neighbor’s daughter was deaf due to Congenital Rubella Syndrome. A mom at a real-life parent group had her first child die from meningitis that is now prevented from Hib (and that was in 1989).

I also live near a Children’s Hospital which gave parenting seminars. Since I was going there often for my son’s hospitalizations, and therapy… it was not so much to go to their talks and use their parent resource library (which I went to before my son got tubes in his ears for recurrent ear infections)… oh, and call up their resource phone line (which I called in desparation when my “normal” son refused to become potty trained at age four years! That boy is now a lifeguard and high school honor student… who knew he would be more difficult to potty train than his disabled big brother). So I try to find information from folks who know what they are talking about, instead of random folks online.

Really, good luck.

I have noticed that there is a lot of pressure on the parenting forums to either agree or to get the hell out. It’s like this really strange mob mentality. It comes up in terms of religion too. I posted a lengthy piece about being a Secular Humanist and really got flamed for it. I, actually, think I am going to hell now. . lol. Reminds me of Sartre’s play “No Exit,” and I’ll be locked with the worst of that forum, I’m sure; having to answer to nonsensical drivel and forlorian wives tales. Ugh.

Anycrazy, I’ll stay posted on here for any more info. I have a month and a half to decide what I am going to do. I think I am going to do what I was planning all along and just get the shots.

The reason I guessed so was because I used to frequent parenting forums. One of the reasons I preferred the online version (starting in the mid-1990s on Compuserve) was because my oldest son is disabled. When I went to the local live parenting groups I where I was the lone parent of a disabled kid amongst all the perfectly normal kids… I was actually told to “shut-up” because no one wanted to hear about the issues I had with doctor visits, therapy and medication.

The reason that so many parents of disabled kids are in online forums is because it is easier to connect to parents in the same situation. There seems to be more online, well… because we have trouble finding many other kids like ours in our communities.

I did find an online community that dealt with my son’s specific disability, but I left it ten years later in disgust. I was getting annoyed at some parents pushing chelation and other questionable treatments (I got lots of nasty grams when I questioned the validity and science of those treatments). The straw that broke the camel’s back was when one of them was actually employed by a DAN! doctor who sold supplements over the internet, and she was actually drumming up business.

I know first hand about parents of disabled kids are marked as future customers of the scum of the earth who make money out others misfortune. (I can’t wait to get my hand on the new book called “Autism’s False Prophets”!)

… side note… a friend noticed this weekend that I very seldom speak about my disabled son in person, but speak of my “normal” children… while online I often write about my disabled son, and not the “normal” children so much… It is a definite pattern.

TracyScott continued: “Actually, the MMR is due for my son at 12 months, not 15 (although there is another MMR then as well). ”

Agh… you are right, now the first is at 12 months, but the second is between age 4 to 6 years old, see table on page 10, or 12th of pdf file):
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/meas.pdf

The schedule has changed a bit. My oldest got his first at 15 months, and then his second before going to middle school when he was 12 years old. There was a change to age 4 years for the second dose about the time my youngest entering kindergarten. Since a nearby private school was having a breakout of measles due to a student traveling overseas, I decided to get my two younger kids their second MMR before it was required (and I mean, school close enough that I knew kids going there, some lived in my neighborhood, and well… you get my drift).

Good luck.

If you want to read some more online, checkout Dr. Novella’s blogroll, including ScienceBasedMedicine and the ScienceBlogs. I can also be found once in a while on the JREF forums, also listed to the right on this blog as the James Randi Educational Foundation. Also, if you have a the time and an mp3 player, download the weekly Skeptics Guide to the Universe which is also hosted by Dr. Novella.

(Oh, side note: many many years ago there were parents on my online group who were pushing the Doman-Delacato patterning therapy… I even checked out Glenn Doman’s book “What to do about your brain damaged baby”, only to find it was a book length advertisement for his institute in Pennsylvania, a truly horrible book… Then I found Dr. Novella’s essay on the lack of science behind it, and I felt much better. I then found this great little book called “No Time for Jello” by Berneen Bratt who tried their system for her son with cerebral palsy — she also had a postscript in the book about the lack of science. These were things that actually helped a mom to a disabled kid!)

By the way, my kids are 14 to 20 years old…. and the oldest has several health issues. This is why I have been part of this debate since he was denied pertussis vaccine due to a history of seizures when our county had a pertussis epidemic, for almost twenty years. You might be interested in some of the books I have read over the past few years, in a weird format due to me keeping track of my library record with Excel because I’ve actually checked things out twice forgetting I had already read or seen them, my library also carries videos and DVDs:
362.42 Deaf like me / by Spradley, Thomas S. Book (deafness due to rubella during the epidemic)
614.43 M8338B 2007 The blue death : disease, disaster and the water we dri
614.47097 AL531V 200 Vaccine : the controversial story of medicine’s greates
614.49 M233P Plagues and peoples / by McNeill, William Hardy, 1917- Book
614.514 J6375G The ghost map : the story of London’s most terrifying e
614.51809 B2797G 2004 The great influenza : the epic story of the deadliest plague in history / John M. Barry.
614.51809 KOLATA 1999 Flu : the story of the great influenza pandemic of 1918 and the search for the virus that caused it / Gina Kolata.
615.5 B3286S 2007 Snake oil science : the truth about complementary and a
614.54909 Of29C 2005 The Cutter incident : how America’s first polio vaccine led to the growing vaccine crisis / Paul A. Offit.
614.54909 Os45P 2005 Polio : an American story / David M. Oshinsky.
616.042 M711S 2007 Survival of the sickest : a medical maverick discovers
616.07909 H557o 2007 Vaccinated : one man’s quest to defeat the world’s deadliest diseases / Paul A. Offit.

Actually, the MMR is due for my son at 12 months, not 15 (although there is another MMR then as well). I don’t think this was the case for my first son, but I’ll have to check the shot records again.

I do agree that there are certainly people out there looking for fame/fortune one way or the other. I just think, also, that it is sad that a path such as this is being used.

I also don’t understand the faith in the Wakefield study, despite all of the failings reported by same. It almost seems like blind faith.

I was born in 1972, and fully vaccinated in Canada. My son was born in 2002 in the US, and fully vaccinated. Neither of us had any problems – not even fevers, nothing. I, again, had a massive cocktail of shots in the military when I was 20 and I can tell you as a former US Army Medic that we were pretty much guinea pigs for medications, yet nothing happened to anyone I knew. No adverse effects (granted, we were adults, but still).

Honestly, if I’d never gone on that parenting forum, I probably wouldn’t have given vaccinations a second thought.

>4) Rubella is devastating to unborn babies, causing
>severe disabilities and death before birth.

How about some bio-terrorism?

Sorry for the originals in German, but I do not want to make ANY mistake by IN ANY WAY translating ANYTHING wrongly.

[*QUOTE*]
——————————————-
“Die Röteln sind hochinfektiös. Für jedes Mädchen besteht die Hoffnung, sich irgendwann anzustecken und eine echte Röteln-Erkrankung durchzumachen. Da diese ein Kind körperlich kaum beeinträchtigt, sollten an Röteln erkrankte Kinder nicht zu Hause behalten werden. Sie sollten in die Schule und auf die Straße
geschickt werden, damit möglichst viele Kinder sich mit echten Röteln anstecken können und dadurch einen verläßlichen Schutz erhalten. In der Literatur sind mehrfach Fälle beschrieben worden, daß Mütter, die gegen Röteln geimpft waren, doch ein Kind mit der gefürchteten Röteln-Embryopathie zur Welt gebracht haben” [539] (Buchwald, 1994, S. 105)
——————————————-
[*/QUOTE*]

That is a quote out of a book which first was printed in 1994.

The key sentence is:

“Sie sollten in die Schule und auf die Straße
geschickt werden, damit möglichst viele Kinder
sich mit echten Röteln anstecken können
und dadurch einen verläßlichen Schutz erhalten.”

“They” (the children, ill with rubella) “shall be sent in the streets and in the schools, so that as many children as possible will be infected with genuine rubella and thusly get a reliable shield.”

Author of the book is Buchwald, a German medical doctor. I do not know how man reprints were made, but I do know that Splittstoesser in 1999 published a book, in which he brought a lot of quotes, the above being one of them.

In april 2008, about 9 years later, I proofed this with Amazon online:

[*QUOTE*]
——————————————————-
Goldrausch. Oder die Frage: Sind Impfungen notwendig, geeignet und zumutbar?
(Taschenbuch)
von Wulf Splittstoeßer (Autor)
Preis: EUR 23,00
Verfügbarkeit: Auf Lager.

Book on Demand (2., überarb. A.)

Produktinformation

* Taschenbuch: 396 Seiten
* Verlag: Splittstoesser Dr. W.; Auflage: 3., überarb. und erg. A. (Dezember 2002)
* ISBN-10: 3934022383
* ISBN-13: 978-3934022386
* Größe und/oder Gewicht: 21,8 x 15,4 x 2,8 cm
——————————————————-
[*/QUOTE*]

Found in a German web-forum in the year 2001:

[*QUOTE*]
——————————————————-
Was Dr. med. Splittstoeßer zur Röteln-Impfung schreibt
[ Forum Impfen ]
Geschrieben von Hans am 28. März 2001 20:40:54:
Als Antwort auf: Re: Röteln-Impfung nicht vor Eintritt der Fortpflanzungsfähigkeit geschrieben von Dr. Vogelsang am 28. März 2001 16:34:44:
Quelle: Dr. med. Wulf Splittstoeßer, “Goldrausch”, Seite 258 bis 261
——————————————————-
[*/QUOTE*]

Together, this sums up to quite a lot.

FIRST, Buchwald is the originator of this criminal attack.

SECOND, Splittstoeßer took on with this instigation already in the first edition of his book. He never dissociated from Buchwald’s statement, but by quoting made it to his own statement.

THIRD, Splittstoeßer instigated to this crime.

FOURTH, Buchwald in 1994 seems to have published only this book:

[*QUOTE*]
——————————————————-
Impfen. Das Geschäft mit der Angst (Gebundene Ausgabe)
von Gerhard Buchwald (Autor)

Produktinformation
Gebundene Ausgabe: 254 Seiten
Verlag: Emu-Verlags-GmbH (1994)
ISBN-10: 3891890443
ISBN-13: 978-3891890448
——————————————————-
[*/QUOTE*]

FIFTH, Buchwald AT LEAST sind 1994 instigated to this crime. Splittstoeßer AT LEAST instigated sind 1999 to this crime.

14 years Buchwald und 9 years Splittstoeßer could instigate without anyone there to stop them.

But that is not all. The medical chamber Hessen (“Landesärztekammer Hessen”) has this detail in its web-site:

http://www.laekh.de/upload/Aerzte_Info/Weiterbildung/WBE_Listen/wbe_listen_5501.pdf

[*QUOTE*]
——————————————————-
Landesärztekammer Hessen
Körperschaft des öffentlichen Rechts
Im Vogelsgesang 3, 60488 Frankfurt am Main

Verzeichnis der zur Weiterbildung im Bereich HOMÖOPATHIE
ermächtigten Ärztinnen und Ärzte in Hessen

Stand: März 2007

Weiterbildungs- befugte/r
Dr. med. Wulf E. Splittstoeßer
Weiterbildungs- stätte
Praxis Luisenstraße 4 65779 Kelkheim
Weiterbildungs- zeitraum
WBO 1995 36 Monate
seit
29.10.1997
——————————————————-
[*/QUOTE*]

Splittstoeßer is a MEDICAL DOCTOR! Buchald also is a medical doctor.

Since 14 years the anti-vaccs in Germany and in foreign countries is fueled by German MEDICAL DOCTORS with the instigation of a willfull breach of the “Infektionsschutzgesetz” (Law concerning the protection against infektuous diseases).

Germany exports bio-terrorism under the seeing eyes of American safeguards…

Why the hell does the FBI not get its behind moving?

Those parenting forums, while they are supportive, they can also be very frightening and confusing. Especially where the moderators are like the news media and think there are two very valid sides of the issue. While there are two sides to issues like handling temper tantrums, sleep issues, television exposure, plastic or cloth diaper and other mostly non-health issue, the vaccine issue has these two sides: science and non-science. Non-science is by definition not valid.

It was probably not until now that she encountered information like Wakefield’s study of a dozen kids was to support a lawsuit, that the MMR has been around since 1971 or that measles actually kills.