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	<title>Comments on: Integrative Medicine Propaganda</title>
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	<description>Your Daily Fix of Neuroscience, Skepticism, and Critical Thinking</description>
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		<title>By: norrisL</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/integrative-medicine-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-46198</link>
		<dc:creator>norrisL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4967#comment-46198</guid>
		<description>Hey, Quiet1

The TV ad you&#039;re referring to must be the AHM ad with 17 different forms of quackery. And WTF is Rolfing????????
There is only one health insurance in Australia that does not pay out on quackery. It is called something like Doctors Own Health Insurance.

Have a good one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Quiet1</p>
<p>The TV ad you&#8217;re referring to must be the AHM ad with 17 different forms of quackery. And WTF is Rolfing????????<br />
There is only one health insurance in Australia that does not pay out on quackery. It is called something like Doctors Own Health Insurance.</p>
<p>Have a good one.</p>
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		<title>By: thequiet1</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/integrative-medicine-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-46196</link>
		<dc:creator>thequiet1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4967#comment-46196</guid>
		<description>&quot;They’re also profit-motivated, so they might cover quackery if they think it’ll convince more people to sign up with them and if those additional people will offset the losses associated with paying for useless treatments.&quot;

Uh-huh, big time. The TV ads for many health insurance companies here in Australia tout their coverage of woo-woo very proudly. Some of them sound like a roll-call of every BS treatment in existence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They’re also profit-motivated, so they might cover quackery if they think it’ll convince more people to sign up with them and if those additional people will offset the losses associated with paying for useless treatments.&#8221;</p>
<p>Uh-huh, big time. The TV ads for many health insurance companies here in Australia tout their coverage of woo-woo very proudly. Some of them sound like a roll-call of every BS treatment in existence.</p>
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		<title>By: daedalus2u</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/integrative-medicine-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-46195</link>
		<dc:creator>daedalus2u</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4967#comment-46195</guid>
		<description>The idea that some treatments may cause harm if misused reminds me of the joke:  A man asks his GF what she wants for her birthday.  She says &quot;something expensive that don&#039;t need&quot;, so he gets her radiation treatments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that some treatments may cause harm if misused reminds me of the joke:  A man asks his GF what she wants for her birthday.  She says &#8220;something expensive that don&#8217;t need&#8221;, so he gets her radiation treatments.</p>
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		<title>By: Bronze Dog</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/integrative-medicine-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-46189</link>
		<dc:creator>Bronze Dog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4967#comment-46189</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a good point in bringing up insurance companies. To them, people are a source of regular income with some risk of losses if they have to pay out. If I buy car insurance and never get in an accident, I&#039;m essentially paying them every month to do nothing. If a person buys medical insurance, the insurance company wants him to lead a long, healthy life with no expensive medications.

People who are sick can end up costing the company money. Useless regular drugs and underachieving palliatives would cost the insurance company money, discouraging them from covering them since they don&#039;t contribute to the well being of the insured. In contrast, a cheap treatment that eliminates the core problem would be a blessing for them, since it means one less lingering cost.

Of course, insurance companies are run by people, so they can and do make mistakes as well. They&#039;re also profit-motivated, so they might cover quackery if they think it&#039;ll convince more people to sign up with them and if those additional people will offset the losses associated with paying for useless treatments.

Not that most alties will appreciate the complex web of conflicting motives between different groups. They&#039;re typically stuck in the tribalist cartoon where anyone who&#039;s not with them must be collectively allied against them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a good point in bringing up insurance companies. To them, people are a source of regular income with some risk of losses if they have to pay out. If I buy car insurance and never get in an accident, I&#8217;m essentially paying them every month to do nothing. If a person buys medical insurance, the insurance company wants him to lead a long, healthy life with no expensive medications.</p>
<p>People who are sick can end up costing the company money. Useless regular drugs and underachieving palliatives would cost the insurance company money, discouraging them from covering them since they don&#8217;t contribute to the well being of the insured. In contrast, a cheap treatment that eliminates the core problem would be a blessing for them, since it means one less lingering cost.</p>
<p>Of course, insurance companies are run by people, so they can and do make mistakes as well. They&#8217;re also profit-motivated, so they might cover quackery if they think it&#8217;ll convince more people to sign up with them and if those additional people will offset the losses associated with paying for useless treatments.</p>
<p>Not that most alties will appreciate the complex web of conflicting motives between different groups. They&#8217;re typically stuck in the tribalist cartoon where anyone who&#8217;s not with them must be collectively allied against them.</p>
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		<title>By: ConspicuousCarl</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/integrative-medicine-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-46188</link>
		<dc:creator>ConspicuousCarl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 18:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4967#comment-46188</guid>
		<description>The first part of a medical oath should be what Sam Harris suggested as an improvement to the Ten Commandments: Do not pretend to know things you do not know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first part of a medical oath should be what Sam Harris suggested as an improvement to the Ten Commandments: Do not pretend to know things you do not know.</p>
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		<title>By: Dmitri</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/integrative-medicine-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-46187</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmitri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 17:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4967#comment-46187</guid>
		<description>I think one important piece of circumstantial evidence against CAM is that insurance companies are reluctant to cover it.

If CAM really treated the &quot;root&quot; of the problem while mainstream doctors only treated symptoms then insurance companies would have an enormous financial incentive to direct people to CAM practitioners. 

If you could treat cancer, for instance, by making adjustments to patient&#039;s diet rather than expensive surgery and medications insurance companies would have been all over it. 

You can&#039;t accuse insurance companies of being in the pocket of Big Pharma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one important piece of circumstantial evidence against CAM is that insurance companies are reluctant to cover it.</p>
<p>If CAM really treated the &#8220;root&#8221; of the problem while mainstream doctors only treated symptoms then insurance companies would have an enormous financial incentive to direct people to CAM practitioners. </p>
<p>If you could treat cancer, for instance, by making adjustments to patient&#8217;s diet rather than expensive surgery and medications insurance companies would have been all over it. </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t accuse insurance companies of being in the pocket of Big Pharma.</p>
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		<title>By: ccbowers</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/integrative-medicine-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-46185</link>
		<dc:creator>ccbowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4967#comment-46185</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think the concept is antiquated.&quot;

Since it has been over 2000 years since the original oath was written, it is not surprising that the concepts are antiquated (there is a line in it about not having sexual relations with men or women in a patient&#039;s home - still true, but odd that this had to be spelled out).  Also 2000+ years ago I imagine that doing nothing was often a person&#039;s best option for good outcome

&quot;In nearly every single instance, we do harm with every intervention we do. The question is, is the harm worth the benefit?&quot;

Not only that, but we are usually thinking (or should be) probabilistically: is the potential harm (aka risk) worth the potential benefits for a given patient.  We attempt to make an educated judgement about that from the evidence available (SBM) given what we know about the individual.  Two thosand years ago there was no such thing as evidence or science based medicine</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think the concept is antiquated.&#8221;</p>
<p>Since it has been over 2000 years since the original oath was written, it is not surprising that the concepts are antiquated (there is a line in it about not having sexual relations with men or women in a patient&#8217;s home &#8211; still true, but odd that this had to be spelled out).  Also 2000+ years ago I imagine that doing nothing was often a person&#8217;s best option for good outcome</p>
<p>&#8220;In nearly every single instance, we do harm with every intervention we do. The question is, is the harm worth the benefit?&#8221;</p>
<p>Not only that, but we are usually thinking (or should be) probabilistically: is the potential harm (aka risk) worth the potential benefits for a given patient.  We attempt to make an educated judgement about that from the evidence available (SBM) given what we know about the individual.  Two thosand years ago there was no such thing as evidence or science based medicine</p>
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		<title>By: nybgrus</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/integrative-medicine-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-46184</link>
		<dc:creator>nybgrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4967#comment-46184</guid>
		<description>I think the concept is antiquated. At least the black and white version alties like to bandy about.

In nearly every single instance, we do harm with every intervention we do. The question is, is the harm worth the benefit? 

Of course I am preaching to the choir here</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the concept is antiquated. At least the black and white version alties like to bandy about.</p>
<p>In nearly every single instance, we do harm with every intervention we do. The question is, is the harm worth the benefit? </p>
<p>Of course I am preaching to the choir here</p>
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		<title>By: gervasium</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/integrative-medicine-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-46182</link>
		<dc:creator>gervasium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4967#comment-46182</guid>
		<description>The original Hippocratic oath had &quot;abstain from doing harm&quot;. It might not have had the exact wording &quot;first, do no harm&quot;, but the intention is there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The original Hippocratic oath had &#8220;abstain from doing harm&#8221;. It might not have had the exact wording &#8220;first, do no harm&#8221;, but the intention is there.</p>
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		<title>By: BobbyG</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/integrative-medicine-propaganda/comment-page-1/#comment-46172</link>
		<dc:creator>BobbyG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2012 03:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4967#comment-46172</guid>
		<description>&quot;If a Medical Doctor says in their Hippocratic oath that they are to first do no harm&quot;
___

Urban myth. Not in the Oath, farm &amp; fuzzy as it may otherwise be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If a Medical Doctor says in their Hippocratic oath that they are to first do no harm&#8221;<br />
___</p>
<p>Urban myth. Not in the Oath, farm &amp; fuzzy as it may otherwise be.</p>
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