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	<title>Comments on: GPS for Pigeons</title>
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	<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/gps-for-pigeons/</link>
	<description>Your Daily Fix of Neuroscience, Skepticism, and Critical Thinking</description>
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		<title>By: Dirk Steele</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/gps-for-pigeons/comment-page-2/#comment-42691</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 07:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4444#comment-42691</guid>
		<description>@locutusbrg

&#039;Really guy’s&#039; &#039;You will get less articulate answer. 

You need to work on the English Language mate.

Tim Guilford&#039;s 10 year study demonstrated that a sun compass and an internal clock plus a great visual memory was all that was required to fly home. Pigeons can see infrared light so clouds present no problem and they do not fly in the dark. It has also been shown that if their sense of smell is inhibited then their homing instincts are completely disrupted. Although I do not rule it out, their ability to use the earth&#039;s electomagnetic field is still pure speculation. I happen to agree with the Karl Popper school of science that states that, once a hypothesis is formulated, it is the duty of the scientist to disprove it, and not to just try prove it. Hence I remain a skeptic. You, on the other hand are just a naughty little boy/girl.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@locutusbrg</p>
<p>&#8216;Really guy’s&#8217; &#8216;You will get less articulate answer. </p>
<p>You need to work on the English Language mate.</p>
<p>Tim Guilford&#8217;s 10 year study demonstrated that a sun compass and an internal clock plus a great visual memory was all that was required to fly home. Pigeons can see infrared light so clouds present no problem and they do not fly in the dark. It has also been shown that if their sense of smell is inhibited then their homing instincts are completely disrupted. Although I do not rule it out, their ability to use the earth&#8217;s electomagnetic field is still pure speculation. I happen to agree with the Karl Popper school of science that states that, once a hypothesis is formulated, it is the duty of the scientist to disprove it, and not to just try prove it. Hence I remain a skeptic. You, on the other hand are just a naughty little boy/girl.</p>
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		<title>By: locutusbrg</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/gps-for-pigeons/comment-page-2/#comment-42689</link>
		<dc:creator>locutusbrg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 23:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4444#comment-42689</guid>
		<description>Really guy&#039;s, why are you feeding the cat(troll) it will just keep hanging around. You might as well sit there and debate with a cat. You will get less articulate answer but they will make more sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really guy&#8217;s, why are you feeding the cat(troll) it will just keep hanging around. You might as well sit there and debate with a cat. You will get less articulate answer but they will make more sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk Steele</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/gps-for-pigeons/comment-page-2/#comment-42681</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 11:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4444#comment-42681</guid>
		<description>@DrN
@SteveA

For my penance, a squeaky sorry is not sufficient, so a full grovel is proffered....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DrN<br />
@SteveA</p>
<p>For my penance, a squeaky sorry is not sufficient, so a full grovel is proffered&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk Steele</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/gps-for-pigeons/comment-page-2/#comment-42680</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 10:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4444#comment-42680</guid>
		<description>@SteveA
@Mlema

Yep, having read the literature now, I think I was misled by the article I quoted, and I now accept I am wrong. Again! But for no longer! Thanks. Pigeons are interesting little chaps....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SteveA<br />
@Mlema</p>
<p>Yep, having read the literature now, I think I was misled by the article I quoted, and I now accept I am wrong. Again! But for no longer! Thanks. Pigeons are interesting little chaps&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mlema</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/gps-for-pigeons/comment-page-2/#comment-42677</link>
		<dc:creator>Mlema</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 06:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4444#comment-42677</guid>
		<description>Dirk, they may prefer to use landmarks, but they seem to use other means to find their way home from a location many miles away and completely unfamiliar to them.  They were used in world war 2 to send messages from downed planes in Europe.

It&#039;s interesting how this post overlaps with the next post in this way: it seems that cell phone towers are messing with homing pigeons.  Not just their navigation, but they seem to show signs of stess having to navigate around them (or maybe that would go along with having your navigation messed up)  Maybe human health isn&#039;t the only health we have to worry about with increased cell phone use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dirk, they may prefer to use landmarks, but they seem to use other means to find their way home from a location many miles away and completely unfamiliar to them.  They were used in world war 2 to send messages from downed planes in Europe.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting how this post overlaps with the next post in this way: it seems that cell phone towers are messing with homing pigeons.  Not just their navigation, but they seem to show signs of stess having to navigate around them (or maybe that would go along with having your navigation messed up)  Maybe human health isn&#8217;t the only health we have to worry about with increased cell phone use.</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk Steele</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/gps-for-pigeons/comment-page-2/#comment-42675</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 04:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4444#comment-42675</guid>
		<description>@SteveA

&#039;And what happens in poor visibility, &#039;

This is an argument from personal incredulity. A TEN year study by a team from Oxford showed that pigeons followed the roads even if it took them miles away...

Good question Steve. I guess the researchers never even asked themselves that one. Why don&#039;t you write to them (and tell them about the 53 neurons too).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SteveA</p>
<p>&#8216;And what happens in poor visibility, &#8216;</p>
<p>This is an argument from personal incredulity. A TEN year study by a team from Oxford showed that pigeons followed the roads even if it took them miles away&#8230;</p>
<p>Good question Steve. I guess the researchers never even asked themselves that one. Why don&#8217;t you write to them (and tell them about the 53 neurons too).</p>
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		<title>By: SteveA</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/gps-for-pigeons/comment-page-2/#comment-42631</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4444#comment-42631</guid>
		<description>Dirk Steele: &quot;It is more the result of asking why evolutionary biology is bothering to evolve a complex adaptation when it has been proven that vision can already do the job nicely thank you.&quot;

And what happens in poor visibility, or where fog or late snowfall obscures the ground, or where wide-scale flooding does the same, or when you&#039;re traveling across vast grasslands or forests where it&#039;s all pretty much identical in every direction? And how much flying is done at night or dusk?...I could go on. Having a navigation system that does not rely solely on reading the ground would confer significant evolutionary benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dirk Steele: &#8220;It is more the result of asking why evolutionary biology is bothering to evolve a complex adaptation when it has been proven that vision can already do the job nicely thank you.&#8221;</p>
<p>And what happens in poor visibility, or where fog or late snowfall obscures the ground, or where wide-scale flooding does the same, or when you&#8217;re traveling across vast grasslands or forests where it&#8217;s all pretty much identical in every direction? And how much flying is done at night or dusk?&#8230;I could go on. Having a navigation system that does not rely solely on reading the ground would confer significant evolutionary benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk Steele</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/gps-for-pigeons/comment-page-2/#comment-42613</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4444#comment-42613</guid>
		<description>@NewRon

Ha! Thanks for that! It is rare for an old grumps like me to laugh before midday!

@SteveA

&#039;This is an argument from personal incredulity.&#039;

That is because of my incredulous personality! (Well I think that is what she told me... but she was Irish.) It is more the result of asking why evolutionary biology is bothering to evolve a complex adaptation when it has been proven that vision can already do the job nicely thank you. (I imagine that is what she said to me as she turned her back and flounced off into the distance....  Each to their own I said in a non racist mutter as I sniffed back the last of my chosen drink  in order to raise my now lowly spirit.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@NewRon</p>
<p>Ha! Thanks for that! It is rare for an old grumps like me to laugh before midday!</p>
<p>@SteveA</p>
<p>&#8216;This is an argument from personal incredulity.&#8217;</p>
<p>That is because of my incredulous personality! (Well I think that is what she told me&#8230; but she was Irish.) It is more the result of asking why evolutionary biology is bothering to evolve a complex adaptation when it has been proven that vision can already do the job nicely thank you. (I imagine that is what she said to me as she turned her back and flounced off into the distance&#8230;.  Each to their own I said in a non racist mutter as I sniffed back the last of my chosen drink  in order to raise my now lowly spirit.)</p>
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		<title>By: SteveA</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/gps-for-pigeons/comment-page-2/#comment-42611</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4444#comment-42611</guid>
		<description>Dirk Steele: &quot;But to make the claim that

‘We have a phenomenon that is well-established – the ability of pigeons to sense and partly navigate according to the earth’s magnetic field.’ 

is not true…&quot;

What is this basis for your dismissal of this statement?


Dirk Steele: &quot;Then to state it could be due to 53 neurons…. well my own neurons start to shut down. I am too skeptical I suppose.&quot;

This is an argument from personal incredulity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dirk Steele: &#8220;But to make the claim that</p>
<p>‘We have a phenomenon that is well-established – the ability of pigeons to sense and partly navigate according to the earth’s magnetic field.’ </p>
<p>is not true…&#8221;</p>
<p>What is this basis for your dismissal of this statement?</p>
<p>Dirk Steele: &#8220;Then to state it could be due to 53 neurons…. well my own neurons start to shut down. I am too skeptical I suppose.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is an argument from personal incredulity.</p>
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		<title>By: NewRon</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/gps-for-pigeons/comment-page-1/#comment-42610</link>
		<dc:creator>NewRon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 10:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4444#comment-42610</guid>
		<description>Usher proved that O&#039;shakespeare was one of ours. His very name was an anagram from McHamlet - &#039;To be shure or not to be shure&#039;. And some waste their time on pigeons when there are real questions to be answered. You can have that American upstart Thomas Stearns Ellio ... what&#039;s his name. Just give us back Cormac McCarthy. As Beckett would have it while waiting for that entity whose name cannot be mentioned (at least on this blog) RAD.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Usher proved that O&#8217;shakespeare was one of ours. His very name was an anagram from McHamlet &#8211; &#8216;To be shure or not to be shure&#8217;. And some waste their time on pigeons when there are real questions to be answered. You can have that American upstart Thomas Stearns Ellio &#8230; what&#8217;s his name. Just give us back Cormac McCarthy. As Beckett would have it while waiting for that entity whose name cannot be mentioned (at least on this blog) RAD.</p>
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