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	<title>Comments for NeuroLogica Blog</title>
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	<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog</link>
	<description>Your Daily Fix of Neuroscience, Skepticism, and Critical Thinking</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:52:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Kastrup Responds by Eric Thomson</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/kastrup-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-43226</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4505#comment-43226</guid>
		<description>tyler I am familiar with all of the above philosophers, but I am a materialist about consciousness. So please, instead of a list of names, how about an argument? What do you think is the best reason to reject materialism wrt consciousness? No citations, no wikipedia block quotes, just your own wits. Bring it!

The &quot;filter&quot; theory might be &lt;i&gt;consistent&lt;/i&gt; with the data, but that is an extremely low standard. Consistency with data is the bare minimum that any theory requires. The theoretical virtues go well beyond consistency with data: falsifiability, simplicity, predictive fecundity, clinical relevance, etc.. What does the filter theory bring to the table as an &lt;i&gt;improvement&lt;/i&gt; on the standard neurocentric view?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tyler I am familiar with all of the above philosophers, but I am a materialist about consciousness. So please, instead of a list of names, how about an argument? What do you think is the best reason to reject materialism wrt consciousness? No citations, no wikipedia block quotes, just your own wits. Bring it!</p>
<p>The &#8220;filter&#8221; theory might be <i>consistent</i> with the data, but that is an extremely low standard. Consistency with data is the bare minimum that any theory requires. The theoretical virtues go well beyond consistency with data: falsifiability, simplicity, predictive fecundity, clinical relevance, etc.. What does the filter theory bring to the table as an <i>improvement</i> on the standard neurocentric view?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kastrup Responds by Stefan</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/kastrup-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-43225</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4505#comment-43225</guid>
		<description>@The Woodman

From the same page, the coarse details show:

Mind: physicalism or non-physicalism?

Accept or lean toward: physicalism	526 / 931 (56.4%)
Accept or lean toward: non-physicalism	252 / 931 (27%)
Other	153 / 931 (16.4%)

Thanks for providing that.    I&#039;m actually slightly surprised that 27% accept or lean to non-physcial,  but I haven&#039;t been keeping up on philosophy, I&#039;m more interested in science and critical thinking at this point in my life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@The Woodman</p>
<p>From the same page, the coarse details show:</p>
<p>Mind: physicalism or non-physicalism?</p>
<p>Accept or lean toward: physicalism	526 / 931 (56.4%)<br />
Accept or lean toward: non-physicalism	252 / 931 (27%)<br />
Other	153 / 931 (16.4%)</p>
<p>Thanks for providing that.    I&#8217;m actually slightly surprised that 27% accept or lean to non-physcial,  but I haven&#8217;t been keeping up on philosophy, I&#8217;m more interested in science and critical thinking at this point in my life.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kastrup Responds by the_woodman</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/kastrup-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-43224</link>
		<dc:creator>the_woodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>(@Stefan)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(@Stefan)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kastrup Responds by the_woodman</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/kastrup-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-43223</link>
		<dc:creator>the_woodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4505#comment-43223</guid>
		<description>Btw, I agree with your statement &#039;In any case, I guarantee you won’t find many scientists studying the brain that are dualists&#039;. Within the field of neuroscience, the number of dualists seems to be pretty low indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Btw, I agree with your statement &#8216;In any case, I guarantee you won’t find many scientists studying the brain that are dualists&#8217;. Within the field of neuroscience, the number of dualists seems to be pretty low indeed.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kastrup Responds by Stefan</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/kastrup-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-43222</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4505#comment-43222</guid>
		<description>@Tyler - to be fair, I will just say that your statement is not compelling and that saying &quot;undeniable fact that the nature of conscious experience is incompatible with our concept of what is physical&quot; is verifiably false.   I deny it - proof positive.  But seriously, to say it is undeniable reveals that you are completely entrenched in your position.     I&#039;m sorry you just keep ignoring the fact that just because we don&#039;t deeply understand how we are conscious doesn&#039;t mean the materialist viewpoint is wrong, it just means we don&#039;t know.  The Dualist position has clearly made that leap into the ghost in the machine.

Philosophical arguments can be logically sound with false premises.  Therefore they don&#039;t hold water if you can&#039;t verify the premise as true.   

In any case - if the mind is not material, it has no bearing on the science - brain damage is brain damage.  Neurological disease is the same whether the brain is a filter or not.  It doesn&#039;t help us understand the brain and how to treat it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tyler &#8211; to be fair, I will just say that your statement is not compelling and that saying &#8220;undeniable fact that the nature of conscious experience is incompatible with our concept of what is physical&#8221; is verifiably false.   I deny it &#8211; proof positive.  But seriously, to say it is undeniable reveals that you are completely entrenched in your position.     I&#8217;m sorry you just keep ignoring the fact that just because we don&#8217;t deeply understand how we are conscious doesn&#8217;t mean the materialist viewpoint is wrong, it just means we don&#8217;t know.  The Dualist position has clearly made that leap into the ghost in the machine.</p>
<p>Philosophical arguments can be logically sound with false premises.  Therefore they don&#8217;t hold water if you can&#8217;t verify the premise as true.   </p>
<p>In any case &#8211; if the mind is not material, it has no bearing on the science &#8211; brain damage is brain damage.  Neurological disease is the same whether the brain is a filter or not.  It doesn&#8217;t help us understand the brain and how to treat it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kastrup Responds by the_woodman</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/kastrup-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-43221</link>
		<dc:creator>the_woodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4505#comment-43221</guid>
		<description>@ Stefan:

Here&#039;s a link to a recent survey among philosophers: http://philpapers.org/surveys/results.pl

&#039;Mind: physicalism or non-physicalism?

Accept: physicalism 	322 / 931 (34.5%)
Lean toward: physicalism 	204 / 931 (21.9%)
Accept: non-physicalism 	132 / 931 (14.1%)
Lean toward: non-physicalism 	120 / 931 (12.8%)
The question is too unclear to answer 	59 / 931 (6.3%)
Agnostic/undecided 	23 / 931 (2.4%)
Accept an intermediate view 	22 / 931 (2.3%)
Accept another alternative 	18 / 931 (1.9%)
Reject both 	12 / 931 (1.2%)
Insufficiently familiar with the issue 	8 / 931 (0.8%)
Skip 	4 / 931 (0.4%)
There is no fact of the matter 	3 / 931 (0.3%)
Accept both 	3 / 931 (0.3%)
Other 	1 / 931 (0.1%)&#039;

These are just the percentages from 2011, and I currently have no data from previous years with which I could back up my claim that the number of dualists - or non-physicalists in general - has increased, but for all I know (from reading articles, papers etc.), this is the case. At the very least, the survey result shows that there are quite a few contemporary philosophers who reject physicalism or are unsure about it (even if it is still the mainstream view).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Stefan:</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link to a recent survey among philosophers: <a href="http://philpapers.org/surveys/results.pl" rel="nofollow">http://philpapers.org/surveys/results.pl</a></p>
<p>&#8216;Mind: physicalism or non-physicalism?</p>
<p>Accept: physicalism 	322 / 931 (34.5%)<br />
Lean toward: physicalism 	204 / 931 (21.9%)<br />
Accept: non-physicalism 	132 / 931 (14.1%)<br />
Lean toward: non-physicalism 	120 / 931 (12.8%)<br />
The question is too unclear to answer 	59 / 931 (6.3%)<br />
Agnostic/undecided 	23 / 931 (2.4%)<br />
Accept an intermediate view 	22 / 931 (2.3%)<br />
Accept another alternative 	18 / 931 (1.9%)<br />
Reject both 	12 / 931 (1.2%)<br />
Insufficiently familiar with the issue 	8 / 931 (0.8%)<br />
Skip 	4 / 931 (0.4%)<br />
There is no fact of the matter 	3 / 931 (0.3%)<br />
Accept both 	3 / 931 (0.3%)<br />
Other 	1 / 931 (0.1%)&#8217;</p>
<p>These are just the percentages from 2011, and I currently have no data from previous years with which I could back up my claim that the number of dualists &#8211; or non-physicalists in general &#8211; has increased, but for all I know (from reading articles, papers etc.), this is the case. At the very least, the survey result shows that there are quite a few contemporary philosophers who reject physicalism or are unsure about it (even if it is still the mainstream view).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kastrup Responds by DOYLE</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/kastrup-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-43220</link>
		<dc:creator>DOYLE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Just a thought.Is it possible that as creatures in an evolutionary progression,we reach an evolutionary benchmark,where by we can even concieve of the difference between brain and mind.Up to that point perhaps we were burdened with assesing states of alarm,digestion and procreation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a thought.Is it possible that as creatures in an evolutionary progression,we reach an evolutionary benchmark,where by we can even concieve of the difference between brain and mind.Up to that point perhaps we were burdened with assesing states of alarm,digestion and procreation</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kastrup Responds by tyler the new ager</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/kastrup-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-43219</link>
		<dc:creator>tyler the new ager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4505#comment-43219</guid>
		<description>ccbowers, I urge you to check out the work of Galen Strawson, David Chalmers, 
John Gregg, John Searle, Ned Block, Michael Huemer, Sean Robsville, Colin McGinn, Thomas Nagel, and a host of other Philosophers of Mind.

Also I must point out that all the data we have from the searing light of neuroscience is compatible with the brain being a filter of consciousness model. Also we can rule out the model of brain=mind due to the powerful and undeniable fact that the nature of conscious experience is incompatible with our concept of what is physical. If consciousness is not actually reducible in explanatory terms to a physical process, then the strange notion of brain=consciousness or mind model must be wrong, no matter how many correlations we observe.

Once again I urge you all to familiarize yourself with the Philosophers above, forget Dennet for a while. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ccbowers, I urge you to check out the work of Galen Strawson, David Chalmers,<br />
John Gregg, John Searle, Ned Block, Michael Huemer, Sean Robsville, Colin McGinn, Thomas Nagel, and a host of other Philosophers of Mind.</p>
<p>Also I must point out that all the data we have from the searing light of neuroscience is compatible with the brain being a filter of consciousness model. Also we can rule out the model of brain=mind due to the powerful and undeniable fact that the nature of conscious experience is incompatible with our concept of what is physical. If consciousness is not actually reducible in explanatory terms to a physical process, then the strange notion of brain=consciousness or mind model must be wrong, no matter how many correlations we observe.</p>
<p>Once again I urge you all to familiarize yourself with the Philosophers above, forget Dennet for a while. <img src='http://theness.com/neurologicablog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Kastrup Responds by Stefan</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/kastrup-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-43218</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4505#comment-43218</guid>
		<description>Tyler - note taken.    My issue will always be, where&#039;s the beef?   There is no compelling reason to veer away from the so-called materialist theories.   There is sooo much we don&#039;t know, but that doesn&#039;t invalidate anything or make it wrong.   Where is that compelling, verifiable counter-example to materialism that could shut this argument down?   

The Dualist ideas are all very cool, but they are just pure speculation and while I&#039;m not a philosopher, I find the arguments made by the respected people you quote are making some pretty big assumptions, which any science-minded person will not grant.  False Premise, invalid conclusion...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyler &#8211; note taken.    My issue will always be, where&#8217;s the beef?   There is no compelling reason to veer away from the so-called materialist theories.   There is sooo much we don&#8217;t know, but that doesn&#8217;t invalidate anything or make it wrong.   Where is that compelling, verifiable counter-example to materialism that could shut this argument down?   </p>
<p>The Dualist ideas are all very cool, but they are just pure speculation and while I&#8217;m not a philosopher, I find the arguments made by the respected people you quote are making some pretty big assumptions, which any science-minded person will not grant.  False Premise, invalid conclusion&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kastrup Responds by Eric Thomson</title>
		<link>http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/kastrup-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-43217</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=4505#comment-43217</guid>
		<description>Tyler mentioned:
&lt;i&gt;the fundamental philosophical problems with the materialist/physicalist position on consciousness&lt;/i&gt;

Bring it. Tell us a problem. Don&#039;t cite other people. Give an argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyler mentioned:<br />
<i>the fundamental philosophical problems with the materialist/physicalist position on consciousness</i></p>
<p>Bring it. Tell us a problem. Don&#8217;t cite other people. Give an argument.</p>
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